Muhammad Ali. How great was he?

[Ivich]

You didn't produce that. Where are all the others? When did he sign the fight and when did the promoter announce the purse? Dates matter. What are they????

If Johnson only signed the articles after the fight was off it means nothing.

By showing one example of an offer I am right. Like is said there were plenty of offers. Yet no fights. Why???

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  #3One or my posts from last year ,showing how Jeannette fared against Johnson in their series
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  1905-05-09				Jack Johnson	23 4 6		Knickerbocker A.C., Philadelphia	L-NWS	3/3		event bout score wiki
  Johnson - who attempted to knock out the first of two men on this card - dropped Jeannette three times in round 1, but after that his opponent stuck it out and gave as much as he took. In the end both the New York Evening World and the Washington Times declared it a very even fight. UPDATE: According to a consensus of the Philadelphia newspapers, Johnson won the bout. The Philadelphia Record and Philadelphia Evening Bulletin both awarded the bout to Johnson and the Philadelphia Inquirer account stated that "Johnson seemed unable to get to Jeannette with any of his blows effectively, although the New Yorker took the count more than once to gather his wits about him when the milling got a bit warm." 1905-12-02 Jack Johnson 31 5 6 National A.C., Philadelphia L-NWS 6/6 event bout score wiki Johnson won the newspaper decision from Jeannette (Philadelphia Item). 906-01-16 Jack Johnson 32 5 6 Sharkey A.C., New York L-NWS 3/3 event bout score wiki Johnson won decisively per Binghamton NY Press 1906-09-20 Jack Johnson 37 5 7 Broadway A.C., Philadelphia L-NWS 6/6 event bout score wiki Johnson received the newspaper decision from the Philadelphia Item. 1906-03-14 185 205 Jack Johnson 33 5 6 Germania Maennerchor Hall, Baltimore L-PTS 15/15 event bout score wiki ref: Frederick Sweigert Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title 1906-09-20 Jack Johnson 37 5 7 Broadway A.C., Philadelphia L-NWS 6/6 event bout score wiki Johnson received the newspaper decision from the Philadelphia Item. 1906-11-26 Jack Johnson 39 5 7 Auditorium, Portland D-NWS 10/10 event bout score wiki ref: Marty Sullivan Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title. Johnson 20lbs heavier. The local paper called it a draw, though it also said Johnson was the cleverer boxer and ring general and slightly outclassed Jeannette. Research done by Adam Pollack. The disqualification fight. Jack Johnson vs. Joe Jeannette (2nd meeting) (Redirected from Fight:19120) Jump to navigationJump to search Jack Johnson lost to Joe Jennette by DQ in round 2 of 6 JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance. Philadelphia Public Ledger Date: 1905-11-25 Location: National A.C., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Johnson defends the World Colored Heavyweight Championship. Although losing, Johnson still claimed the title because he was disqualified.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32122911]

• Post Reply

• One or my posts from last year ,showing how Jeannette fared against Johnson in their series

.
[TD="colspan: 13"]Johnson - who attempted to knock out the first of two men on this card - dropped Jeannette three times in round 1, but after that his opponent stuck it out and gave as much as he took. In the end both the New York Evening World and the Washington Times declared it a very even fight. UPDATE: According to a consensus of the Philadelphia newspapers, Johnson won the bout. The Philadelphia Record and Philadelphia Evening Bulletin both awarded the bout to Johnson and the Philadelphia Inquirer account stated that "Johnson seemed unable to get to Jeannette with any of his blows effectively, although the New Yorker took the count more than once to gather his wits about him when the milling got a bit warm."

1905-12-02				Jack Johnson	31 5 6		National A.C., Philadelphia	L-NWS	6/6		event bout score wiki
Johnson won the newspaper decision from Jeannette (Philadelphia Item).

906-01-16				Jack Johnson	32 5 6		Sharkey A.C., New York	L-NWS	3/3		event bout score wiki
Johnson won decisively per Binghamton NY Press

span: 13"]Johnson received the newspaper decision from the Philadelphia Item. [TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]

Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title. Johnson 20lbs heavier. The local paper called it a draw, though it also said Johnson was the cleverer boxer and ring general and slightly outclassed Jeannette. Research done by Adam Pollack.
The disqualification fight.
Jack Johnson vs. Joe Jeannette (2nd meeting)

(Redirected from Fight:19120)
Jump to navigationJump to search Jack Johnson lost to Joe Jennette by DQ in round 2 of 6


JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
Philadelphia Public Ledger[LIST][*]Date: 1905-11-25[*]Location: National A.C., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA[LIST][*]Johnson defends the World Colored Heavyweight Championship. Although losing, Johnson still claimed the title because he was disqualified.

[Ivich]

• • • Originally posted here byTravestyny and ignored by you 3 years ago!
      
    • #4
      07-22-2020, 10:36 PM
      Originally posted by travestyny View Post

What no reply from you Dr Duck?

Why am I not surprised!!!!! LOL!

[Dr. Z]

Ivich

What no reply from you

One example of Jeannette vs Johnson being ruled off by one state. Okay the move the fight to another state, or nation! Is this all you have? It appears so. Johnson did not want this fight as champion! There were numerous offers. Why am I not surprised you fail to understand this.

We know that Johnson beat a .sub 500 type of Jeannette who 1 ) Was a novice and did not have many fights and 2 ) was about 170 pounds!

Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title. Johnson is 20lbs heavier. The local paper called it a draw

Johnson was about 185-190 pounds in 1905 -1906. This means that Jeannette was 165 - 170 Pounds. And a newbie.

And was being out classed before he nutted Joe, and in shame and was DQ'd.

If you haven't guessed you feel right into my trap of proof. I let you show me someone cards, which at best are limited at best.

Thanks for showing me some else work. Is that all you got, Tony?

[Ivich]

One example of Jeannette vs Johnson being ruled off by one state. Okay the move the fight to another state, or nation! Is this all you have? It appears so. Johnson did not want this fight as champion! There were numerous offers. Why am I not surprised you fail to understand this.

We know that Johnson beat a .sub 500 type of Jeannette who 1 ) Was a novice and did not have many fights and 2 ) was about 170 pounds!



Johnson was about 185-190 pounds in 1905 -1906. This means that Jeannette was 165 - 170 Pounds. And a newbie.

And was being out classed before he nutted Joe, and in shame and was DQ'd.

If you haven't guessed you feel right into my trap of proof. I let you show me someone cards, which at best are limited at best.

Thanks for showing me some else work. Is that all you got, Tony?

You made a statement that you have offers of between $30,000 and $100,000 that Johnson turned down.
You have been saying this for over 13 years now but have never produced them, despite numerous requests to do so.

We know you do not have them, just as we know you are a lying coward who runs away when he is challenged.

I reposted verified articles with the dates on them that were posted by me on Classic years ago and also articles that Travestyny posted here 3 years ago.

You ignored all of them, just as you are now.
Travestyny and I have posted links that prove Johnson signed to fight all three of the black trio once his asking price was met the dates of these articles also prove that Johnson had agreed to the title defences and the fact that they did not happen was no fault of his own .

As to the Johnson DSQ against Jeannette.here is the ringside report.

JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
"Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance."

Johnson was in front when he was dsq'd for," an alleged foul" which was a low blow ,no butting involved whatsoever.Given Johnson was in front, given his record against Jeannette,and given it was only the 2nd round;Why would Johnson need to low blow Jeannette whom he had proven to be the master of and who he had dropped numerous times in their series?

In closing Dr Duck I say you are a serial liar and a coward,and you prove yourself to be so at least once a month.
You are a disgusting ,shameless excuse for a man.I feel contaminated just exchanging posts with you.

[The Defecator]

You made a statement that you have offers of between $30,000 and $100,000 that Johnson turned down.
You have been saying this for over 13 years now but have never produced them, despite numerous requests to do so.

We know you do not have them, just as we know you are a lying coward who runs away when he is challenged.

I reposted verified articles with the dates on them that were posted by me on Classic years ago and also articles that Travestyny posted here 3 years ago.

You ignored all of them, just as you are now.
Travestyny and I have posted links that prove Johnson signed to fight all three of the black trio once his asking price was met the dates of these articles also prove that Johnson had agreed to the title defences and the fact that they did not happen was no fault of his own .

As to the Johnson DSQ against Jeannette.here is the ringside report.

JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
"Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance."

Johnson was in front when he was dsq'd for," an alleged foul" which was a low blow ,no butting involved whatsoever.Given Johnson was in front, given his record against Jeannette,and given it was only the 2nd round;Why would Johnson need to low blow Jeannette whom he had proven to be the master of and who he had dropped numerous times in their series?

In closing Dr Duck I say you are a serial liar and a coward,and you prove yourself to be so at least once a month.
You are a disgusting ,shameless excuse for a man.I feel contaminated just exchanging posts with you.

There are always going to be posters who make you want to run to the shower and scrub down after engaging with them…..

[Dr. Z]

There are always going to be posters who make you want to run to the shower and scrub down after engaging with them…..

It was not an alleged foul. Shower you say? Johnson was exactly a clean fighter. The man went low, hit and held, and hit in the break as well as doing some dirty things squeezing his opponents biceps. The details of which can be read in several reports.

[Ivich]

It was not an alleged foul. Shower you say? Johnson was exactly a clean fighter. The man went low, hit and held, and hit in the break as well as doing some dirty things squeezing his opponents biceps. The details of which can be read in several reports.

It was reported as an alleged foul by ringside reporters and that is what I copied and posted .It was not a headbutt as you stated, it was an alleged low blow in the 2nd round and Johnson according to ringside observers was on top at the time. This was the only time Johnson was ever dsq'd.

Johnson hit and held which was permissible under the rules of the time . before bouts fighters would mutually agree to hit in the clinches or not.
Burns believing himself the superior inside fighter opted for hitting in the clinches and stated after their fight that he bitterly regretted his choice.

Squezing an opponents biceps was not considered a foul and Johnsons opponents were at liberty to do the same to him.

Johnson hit on the break in one recorded fight against Moran and was warned by the referee Carpentier for it.Moran back handed Johnson twice and was not warned,its on the film of the fight.

Now lets examine the state of play.
YOU ASKED FOR EXAMPLES OF JOHNSON SIGNING TO DEFEND HIS TITLE AGAINSTJEANNETTE,LANGFORD ,AND MCVEY.

YOU CHELLENGED ME TO PROVIDE THEM
I PROVIDED THEM, ALONG WITH ,NAMES OF PROMOTERS,VENUES,DATES.AND PURSES.

YOU STATED YOU HAVE OFFERS OF FROM $30,000 to $100,000 FOR JOHNSON TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM

I ASKED YOU TO POST THEM,ALONG WITH THE SAME INFORMATION.ie PROMOTERS VENUES.PURSES,DATES.
I CHALLENGED YOU TO PRODUCE THEM/

YOU POSTED NOTHING JUST AS YOU HAVE POSTED NOTHING FOR OVER THE 13 YEARS I HAVE BEEN ASKING YOU FOR THEM .

I HAVE SUPPLIEDTHE ONLY VERIFIED OFFERS THAT MET JOHNSONS'S ASKING PRICE.

AS CAN BE SEEN, HE ACCEPTED THEM ,SIGNED CONTRACTS FOR THEM AND POSTED CASH BONDS AS EVIDENCE OF GOOD FAITH.

Here is some more info for you to digest.

In December 1911 Johnson was offered $15,000 to defend against Jeannette, in a ten rounder ,with Jeannette to get $5000.The New York Age. December 28th 1911
Johnson responded by saying he would fight Jeannette if a $30,000 guarantee was posted .The Call Jan 1912.
Jan 1912 Hugh McIntosh offers Johnson $30,000 to defend against McVey who had just beaten Langford.
Johnson says he will accept the fight if the money will be deposited in a reliable bank before he left Chicago.
The Freeman Jan 12 1912.
Johnson agreed to fight Sam McVey On Dec 30th 1911. The fight to take place on Easter Monday April 8th 1912, for $30,000, plus $5000 training expenses.San Francisco Call Dec 30th 1911.
The Religious faction in Sydney agitated for the fight to be prohibited and the business men who were to back the fight pulled out.
Jim Coffroth offered Johnson a flat fee of $30,000 to defend against Jim Flynn in July 1912 Johnson took the deal .Who wouldn't?
Now McIntosh re-surfaced and wired Johnson that as a result of the opposition to his defence against McVey in Aussie, he proposed to promote the fight in France ,it was to be held on June 23rds but this was too close to the Flynn fight which would be held in the US .Johnson was to get the $30,000 plus $1,100 training exes ,plus1/3 of the movie rights.
He was offered neither of the latter for the Jeannette fight and he would have had to travel to Paris under his own steam for it.
The McMahon Brothers promoting in NY tried again to get a Johnson v Jeannette title fight off the ground and they upped their offer to the required amount, The NY boxing commission immediately banned Johnson from fighting in the state and issued the following announcement,on Jan11 1912.
"I will not allow Johnson to box in the state against anyone,I have come to the conclusion it is against public policy and expediency to have Johnson box here.This is final." Boxing Commissioner Frank O' Neill.
Dan McKetrick ,Jeannette' s manager offered Johnson $15,000 to defend against Joe in a ten round fight ,This was less than half what Johnson was getting to fight Flynn.
Johnson responded in the papers by saying."ThIS McKetrick makes me tired. At first he said Jeannette was a marathon fighter that he could beat me over a route, but would have no chance over ten rounds.Now he wants it over ten rounds and bunk the, public because he knows I can make Joe look foolish.However,if he comes across with A $30,000 bid he can have a ten round whirl before I box Flynn." The Salt Lake TribuneJan 12 1912.

NB On July19 1912 Battling Jim Johnson beat Joe Jeannette in a 6 rounder."In the 3rd round Johnson threw Jeannette to the floor"."In the 5th rd Johnson dropped Jeannette with a punch to the jaw.Joe was shaken, but fought back hard.
Both were tired at the endof the 6th rd Joe used stomach blows, but Johnson was hard as nails and Jeannette was forced to hold to avoid punishment." San Francisco Examiner July 12 1912.
Before the Johnson v Flynn title fight a telegram was read out in the ring it was from Jeannette offering to fight Johnson for $20,000. Johnson received another telegram from the McMahon Brothers who promoted in NY.
They offered Johnson $20,000 for a Johnson defence against Jeannette in NY . This was July 4th 1912.
Billy Gibson offered Johnson $25,000 to defend against Jeannette over 10 rds.Johnson replied he wanted his $30,000 price,saying," I don't care who you name to fight me the price will be the same for my services ,or I wont appear."
.

Adam Pollack puts the Johnson V Jeannette series at 7 fights,
1905.w 2-4 kds',Ldsq,w6 4kd',1906 wd 3 w`15,w10 1kd.

Billy Gibson attempted to get the NY ban on Johnson lifted,but the New York American affirmed that the NY Commission would not let him box there.New York American July8 1912
McIntosh now offered Johnson $20,000 to fight McVey and $20,000 to fight Langford $20,000 short of his asking price and he would have to travel to Australia to defend his title.
At this time promoters were pushing for an Al Palzer fight believing that it would be a better draw. The NY Commission made it clear that no white black contest woul be permitted there,[they already had a maximum of 10 rounds for boxing matches].
On July 28 Gibson the manager of MSG ,with the blessing of McKetrick offered Johnson $20,000 for a 10 round title defence Gibson thought that he could persuade the NY Commission to relax their ban on Johnson.Johnson replied $30,000 or I retire.

Johnson "You can make the story of my retirement as strong as you like,I have a paying business here[ his Cafe De Champion],and I'm going to stick to it .There are no white hopes worthy of attention .I have beaten Jeannette so many times that I've lost track of the number.Langford does not want to fight me,despite his repeated challenges.His challenges are merely to attract attention to his own person".

Johnson justified his asking fee of $30,000 a defence by saying he had to take the short end,[ $5000] against Burns whilst Burns got $30,000 and that was 4 years earlier. Johnson said he and Jeannette would draw at least $60,000 in MSG ." I'm certainly worth 50% of that amount.Jeannette could not draw $10,000 with anyone else.There is no other match in the world that would draw as much in NY City.Jeannette ought to be satisfied with getting as much out of the match as I received when I fought for the title.That would leave the club a handsome profit for its trouble.Why should I take one third of the gate ,which is what $20,000 represents?"
San Francisco Call July28 1912.

August 14 1912 ,Johnson signed to fight Jeannette over 10rds at the St Nicholas Club in NYC the bout to take place on Sep25 1912.Promoters the McMahon Bros. Johnson guaranteed,$25,000 regardless of gate receipts, if the receipts totalled $60,000 Johnson would receive $30,000 plus an additional 25% of any amounts exceeding $60,000 Johnson would also receive a one half interest in the fight films which could be shown in NY and overseas." Johnson liked the contract because he expected to make more than $30,000. Johnson said he was weighing242lbs but only needed to lose 12 pounds to get down to230 for a ten round bout, [all that NY allowed].
" I whipped that fellow 3 times and can do it every day just for fun.The only time he ever did make a showing with me I was a bit under wraps,you know I had a hard time getting matches in those days."
The Salt Lake Tribune said that ,"Johnson's assertion that he was under wrap was the truth.Under wraps mean that he had agreed to carry his foe in order to get his opponent to fight."Aug 15 1912.

"Johnson placed $5000 forfeit money in the hands of Al Tearney demanding that the McMahon forfeit be given to him if they could not bring off the match. The belief that the NYC was only really opposed to a Black v White contest proved to be ill founded , on Aug22 the NYSAC refused to allow the match with the commissioners threatening to revoke the licence of any club that held the bout.
The McMahon's made a statement explaining why they were no longer prepared to promote the fight,being threatened with having their licences withdrawn."

Now we know you will not provide the information I requested, because you do not have it.

What you may do is post some irrelevant garbage about what a bad person Johnson was.

Your hate for this man, who has been dead for decades ,is all consuming , and exposing you as a disturbed nut case.

You really need to get a grip,seek some help,Dr Duck.

[Dr. Z]

Mr, liar, bet welsher, inaccurate reporter who has been proven wrong many times here, donated money to a ********* organization and other things.... Tell us more about the Jeannette fight offered in this case by Mcmahon in 1912.

When was it offered?

Did Johnson take a long time to sign it? Did he sign it late after he had legal troubles in the USA? Um yeah, if you look at the dates, and facts that is the case. Question you ducker.

Why not move the fight to France? There was plenty of demand to do so. Oh wait he had offers in face to fight Jeannette and Langford too. As we know Johnson ducked them as champion. It's all some else fault, right? All ten times or so .....

Johnson a man who loved to spend his money did not fight in 1911.



You are a " pig sick " freemason freak , and continue to love a clockwork orange of a man who nearly beat his wife to death and attacked the sick and weak old man. By the way, your freemason dues next year are going to be a lot, that is if you plan to move up their pyramid scheme of worshiping Baphomet or you know who.

But as we know you can't talk about that. Or you will pay. I am not your judge but there is a good chance you will burn in the afterlife for your past doings. In a way you worship makes sense.

By the way, I have met the people of the Blue Lodge and they talk. I take it you know who they are. And have been on the web and spilled the beans for the world to see. Exactly who do you think you're fooling?

[The Defecator]

It was not an alleged foul. Shower you say? Johnson was exactly a clean fighter. The man went low, hit and held, and hit in the break as well as doing some dirty things squeezing his opponents biceps. The details of which can be read in several reports.

I see reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. My post isn’t about a foul in a boxing match; it’s about how interacting with posters like you make a person feel unclean. Now, don’t respond to my posts again until you learn how to read. Oh, and lose your ethnic nationalist mindset: That’s as ****** as it gets.