a case for Joe Louis beating Muhammad Ali prime for prime

[them_apples]

Joe Louis was trained by Jack Blackburn, who knew boxing like nobody else. Joe Louis' stance and jab would nullify Ali's Jab. as well as his ability to cut off the ring. As the footage improves, we can also see Louis' incredible hand speed, though not as fast as Ali's - it isn't far behind.

Norton used a similar strategy to take away Ali's Jab. Ali without a jab wasn't nearly as effective, as he tended to throw arm punches (probably how he got his speed).

This isn't a thread saying Joe Louis would beat Ali, rather it is a case that he could. Since most always pick Ali over Louis, these days I am not so sure. I also think if they met in the ring their personalities would make it very competitive.

While Ali was supremely talented, Louis was just talented + having a great trainer. Ali didn't have a great trainer, a lot of his style he taught to himself by trying to emulate Robinson.

Ali also tended to make a lot of mistakes, And Louis made almost non.

[IronDanHamza]

Louis has a chance with Ali.

But to say that Louis' hand speed is not far behind Ali's is preposterous.

[Slugfester]

The same Clay/Ali who beat Liston the first time would fight tactically identically against Louis, I believe. Their speed difference would be quite disparate and noticeable, rather than small and debatable, especially in foot speed. Joe has a chance because ATGs do land punches on anyone But I think his face is going to be too busy taking punches. Joe was heavy legged, which contributed apparently to his power but not his foot speed.

[them_apples]

Louis has a chance with Ali.

But to say that Louis' hand speed is not far behind Ali's is preposterous.

nope I disagree, now that footage of prime Louis is upscaled with Ai, you can see he’ s got very fast explosive punches. I said this in the OP.

the old footage of Louis he always looked flat footed and slower because there just wasn†™t enough frames to display how he actually moved. We can also now see his subtle cleverness and ability to roll punches and bait his oponents

Ali is still quicker than him, but preposterous isn†™t the word.

hd upscaled prime Louis

Ali vs Doug Jones, Jones was quick but not as quick as Ali, but his better fundamentals allowed him to hit Ali a lot

if you notice, nobody ever seemed capable of effectively jabbing Louis because his style negates the jab, much like Norton

[them_apples]

The same Clay/Ali who beat Liston the first time would fight tactically identically against Louis, I believe. Their speed difference would be quite disparate and noticeable, rather than small and debatable, especially in foot speed. Joe has a chance because ATGs do land punches on anyone But I think his face is going to be too busy taking punches. Joe was heavy legged, which contributed apparently to his power but not his foot speed.

Joe uses the same footwork as george Foreman, pivot on the back foot and one step in the direction of the oponent. Ali said Foreman cut the ring off this way by taking one step for 3 of Alis, and thus the rope adope was created.

Louis is very well schooled, but not everything he does is noticeable at first because people tend to look for obvious flashy stuff.

louis stance alone gives almost no targets to hit, and its easy too see Louis was a master of cutting off the ring. For someone with “slow feetâ€� he seemed to out maneuver everyone - and thats because he has educated footwork.

I don’t think anyone would have figured Norton to give Ali any trouble - but what he did with his jab is the one good thing he did - and it allowed him to handle / hang with 2 of the better boxers Ali and Holmes. He could nullify the opponents jab. Louis does the same things only he’s better at everything else.

[Slugfester]

Joe uses the same footwork as george Foreman, pivot on the back foot and one step in the direction of the oponent. Ali said Foreman cut the ring off this way by taking one step for 3 of Alis, and thus the rope adope was created.

Louis is very well schooled, but not everything he does is noticeable at first because people tend to look for obvious flashy stuff.

louis stance alone gives almost no targets to hit, and its easy too see Louis was a master of cutting off the ring. For someone with âÂÂslow feetâ he seemed to out maneuver everyone - and thats because he has educated footwork.

I don't think anyone would have figured Norton to give Ali any trouble - but what he did with his jab is the one good thing he did - and it allowed him to handle / hang with 2 of the better boxers Ali and Holmes. He could nullify the opponents jab. Louis does the same things only heâs better at everything else.

Louis's footwork was fine for his day. It works, where most opponents barely move but wait for his punch. Louis could not survive against today's best unless Blackburn added some ideas that are not present in his leg work. I am not saying he has no decent leg work. Fine for his day, paltry today.

[cyril layman]

Joe Louis was trained by Jack Blackburn, who knew boxing like nobody else. Joe Louis' stance and jab would nullify Ali's Jab. as well as his ability to cut off the ring. As the footage improves, we can also see Louis' incredible hand speed, though not as fast as Ali's - it isn't far behind.

Norton used a similar strategy to take away Ali's Jab. Ali without a jab wasn't nearly as effective, as he tended to throw arm punches (probably how he got his speed).

This isn't a thread saying Joe Louis would beat Ali, rather it is a case that he could. Since most always pick Ali over Louis, these days I am not so sure. I also think if they met in the ring their personalities would make it very competitive.

While Ali was supremely talented, Louis was just talented + having a great trainer. Ali didn't have a great trainer, a lot of his style he taught to himself by trying to emulate Robinson.

Ali also tended to make a lot of mistakes, And Louis made almost non.

I rank Louis 2nd greatest HW all time but Ali number 1.This the the fights we should be talking about bothers me when people talk Ali Vs Tyson Tyson isn't the top 2 greatest HW Ali & Louis are.Ali wins hands down .Louis was a flat footed boxer & these boxers didn't do well against Ali.Louis had all kinds of problems with Light HW billy Conn who was much smaller than Ali.Ali also had one of the best chins in HW history & hit a lot harder than Conn.Ali decision or late rd KO.Not trying to take away from the great Louis (25 consecutive title defenses) who was one of the all time greats but style make fights & Louis style was picture perfect for Ali.

[joseph5620]

Louis has a chance with Ali.

But to say that Louis' hand speed is not far behind Ali's is preposterous.

This. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[Willow The Wisp]

I've always had a hunch that Ali's style and skill set would pose particular problems for Louis; and that Dempsey's style and skill set would pose particular problems for Ali, and that Louis' style and skill set would pose particular problems for Dempsey. A rock, Paper, Scissors scenario.

[QueensburyRules]

I rank Louis 2nd greatest HW all time but Ali number 1.This the the fights we should be talking about bothers me when people talk Ali Vs Tyson Tyson isn't the top 2 greatest HW Ali & Louis are.Ali wins hands down .Louis was a flat footed boxer & these boxers didn't do well against Ali.Louis had all kinds of problems with Light HW billy Conn who was much smaller than Ali.Ali also had one of the best chins in HW history & hit a lot harder than Conn.Ali decision or late rd KO.Not trying to take away from the great Louis (25 consecutive title defenses) who was one of the all time greats but style make fights & Louis style was picture perfect for Ali.

- - Ali knocked down by fringe Sonny Banks, knocked out by Sir 'enery, beat up by little Doug Jones, TKOed by Liston 1, DQed by a legit ref in Liston 2, and that just for starters.

Thanks for a comparison reference to Joe for whom MLK and Nelson Mandela molded their personalities and other personal attributes after...