a case for Joe Louis beating Muhammad Ali prime for prime

[QueensburyRules]

The 1970's is considered the toughest era in HW boxing history & Ali in his 30's by then fought & beat them all.Foreman-Frazier-Norton-Liston-Shavers-spinks.These me are HOF.Give me Louis resume please.

- - 70s is where Ali took 3 of his losses, and should've been 5 since consensus say Kenny whooped him thrice. 60s was very light in the loafers suffering after Rocky retired in the mid 50s. 60s is also where Ali ducked his biggest fight, possibly the biggest fight in international history, and take away the 60s, oh dear, Ali 27-5 and loses most of his KOs that were cut stoppages to keep him fast tracked up the chain for Liston.

Name me the heavy champs that get whooped by Leon! I can give you dozen who might get beat up by Shavers as he did to Ali...

[cyril layman]

- - 70s is where Ali took 3 of his losses, and should've been 5 since consensus say Kenny whooped him thrice. 60s was very light in the loafers suffering after Rocky retired in the mid 50s. 60s is also where Ali ducked his biggest fight, possibly the biggest fight in international history, and take away the 60s, oh dear, Ali 27-5 and loses most of his KOs that were cut stoppages to keep him fast tracked up the chain for Liston.

Name me the heavy champs that get whooped by Leon! I can give you dozen who might get beat up by Shavers as he did to Ali...

Ali Avenged his first 3 losses the first two losses against Frazier & Norton he avenged twice.His last 2 Losses I don't even count he cam out of a 2 year retirement & was already showing signs of Parkinsons syndrome.Had he not come out of retirement them Ali would have retired as 1 of only 4 HW champions to have defeated everyone he had every faced.The Rocky Marciano era was one of the weakest in HW boxing history & is why most boxing experts don't have Marciano in the top 5 HW all time.Todays standards Marciano would have been lucky to have fought as a Cruiser weight.Marciano never fought anyone close to the big men & talented fighters Ali fought.As far as Norton goes I have Norton winning 1st & 3rd fights with Ali & the 2nd fight a draw.Do i think Norton was better than Ali heck no but his style just gave Ali problems & all great Champions all had atleast 1 opponent to give them problems.Remember Ali never lost a fight in his prime & had 3 & a half years of his prime taken from him.Even in his 30's he was quick but slowed down enough to give us some of the greatest HW champion ship fights in boxing history.Ali rarely got hit in his prime so the big question was could he take a punch.His 3rd & final fight with Frazier was the great HW champion fight of all time.Frazier 30 & Ali 33. They fought in over 100 degree heat & still set a recorded for punches thrown in a 15 rd hw champion ship fight neither fighter was ever the same again.Louis or Marciano would not have made it to the 15th & final round.Who did Ali Duck?

[GhostofDempsey]

Louis had the footwork, power, ability to cut off the ring, and overall skills to beat Ali. Norton did it and he was a far less skilled fighter.

[markusmod]

Ali Avenged his first 3 losses the first two losses against Frazier & Norton he avenged twice.His last 2 Losses I don't even count he cam out of a 2 year retirement & was already showing signs of Parkinsons syndrome.Had he not come out of retirement them Ali would have retired as 1 of only 4 HW champions to have defeated everyone he had every faced.The Rocky Marciano era was one of the weakest in HW boxing history & is why most boxing experts don't have Marciano in the top 5 HW all time.Todays standards Marciano would have been lucky to have fought as a Cruiser weight.Marciano never fought anyone close to the big men & talented fighters Ali fought.As far as Norton goes I have Norton winning 1st & 3rd fights with Ali & the 2nd fight a draw.Do i think Norton was better than Ali heck no but his style just gave Ali problems & all great Champions all had atleast 1 opponent to give them problems.Remember Ali never lost a fight in his prime & had 3 & a half years of his prime taken from him.Even in his 30's he was quick but slowed down enough to give us some of the greatest HW champion ship fights in boxing history.Ali rarely got hit in his prime so the big question was could he take a punch.His 3rd & final fight with Frazier was the great HW champion fight of all time.Frazier 30 & Ali 33. They fought in over 100 degree heat & still set a recorded for punches thrown in a 15 rd hw champion ship fight neither fighter was ever the same again.Louis or Marciano would not have made it to the 15th & final round.Who did Ali Duck?

Some good points here.

[QueensburyRules]

Ali Avenged his first 3 losses the first two losses against Frazier & Norton he avenged twice.His last 2 Losses I don't even count he cam out of a 2 year retirement & was already showing signs of Parkinsons syndrome.Had he not come out of retirement them Ali would have retired as 1 of only 4 HW champions to have defeated everyone he had every faced.The Rocky Marciano era was one of the weakest in HW boxing history & is why most boxing experts don't have Marciano in the top 5 HW all time.Todays standards Marciano would have been lucky to have fought as a Cruiser weight.Marciano never fought anyone close to the big men & talented fighters Ali fought.As far as Norton goes I have Norton winning 1st & 3rd fights with Ali & the 2nd fight a draw.Do i think Norton was better than Ali heck no but his style just gave Ali problems & all great Champions all had atleast 1 opponent to give them problems.Remember Ali never lost a fight in his prime & had 3 & a half years of his prime taken from him.Even in his 30's he was quick but slowed down enough to give us some of the greatest HW champion ship fights in boxing history.Ali rarely got hit in his prime so the big question was could he take a punch.His 3rd & final fight with Frazier was the great HW champion fight of all time.Frazier 30 & Ali 33. They fought in over 100 degree heat & still set a recorded for punches thrown in a 15 rd hw champion ship fight neither fighter was ever the same again.Louis or Marciano would not have made it to the 15th & final round.Who did Ali Duck?

- - 60s Ali era was weaker than Rocky's era is the point I'm making, equivalent to the post Rocky era with Patterson and Liston who admittedly had the best title reign as far as competition, fighting Floyd and then Ali consecutively back to back.

Had he taken an interim Cleveland Williams type defense before young Clay, he takes the first Ali fight and already took the 2nd Ali fight according to the rules of boxing in Valhalla.

[Slugfester]

- - 60s Ali era was weaker than Rocky's era is the point I'm making, equivalent to the post Rocky era with Patterson and Liston who admittedly had the best title reign as far as competition, fighting Floyd and then Ali consecutively back to back.

Had he taken an interim Cleveland Williams type defense before young Clay, he takes the first Ali fight and already took the 2nd Ali fight according to the rules of boxing in Valhalla.

You wouldn't even know what a point was, fart flower, except the one crowning your head. ******est letter I have read in a long time.

[QueensburyRules]

You wouldn't even know what a point was, fart flower, except the one crowning your head. ******est letter I have read in a long time.

- - Now, now, there you go again Festus...

We know your minder does your reading and typing when not silverspoon feeding you your strained crumpets and minced pies.

Best to best, I have Louis and Dempsey whooping any version of Ali you come up with.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Now, now, there you go again Festus...

We know your minder does your reading and typing when not silverspoon feeding you your strained crumpets and minced pies.

Best to best, I have Louis and Dempsey whooping any version of Ali you come up with.

Na! As big Dempsey a fan as I am I have to disagree. 1967 Ali is too much for Dempsey. Dempsey couldn't chase him down. An Ali UD, in a fight where Ali would figure out how to turn it into a stinker to watch.

Louis on the other hand would find Dempsey difficult to deal with. We can't know for sure because Louis was so aged, but the only fighter who ever pressured Louis as Dempsey would have is Marciano. Dempsey has a solid chin and could weather Louis's right hand long enough to get inside and do damage.

I might bet Dempsey against Louis. Never against Ali ('67).

On the other hand, Ali '74 and the 'rope a dope' Dempsey wins that fight by TKO in five rounds.

You had to be effective moving backwards to beat Dempsey. Trade with him, or even just stand in front of him, you die.

[Bundana]

boxers today have absolutely terrible footwork, stances so wide they lose balance and can't throw proper punches. its a joke

Yes, this is indeed a joke!

[billeau2]

Na! As big Dempsey a fan as I am I have to disagree. 1967 Ali is too much for Dempsey. Dempsey couldn't chase him down. An Ali UD, in a fight where Ali would figure out how to turn it into a stinker to watch.

Louis on the other hand would find Dempsey difficult to deal with. We can't know for sure because Louis was so aged, but the only fighter who ever pressured Louis as Dempsey would have is Marciano. Dempsey has a solid chin and could weather Louis's right hand long enough to get inside and do damage.

I might bet Dempsey against Louis. Never against Ali ('67).

On the other hand, Ali '74 and the 'rope a dope' Dempsey wins that fight by TKO in five rounds.

You had to be effective moving backwards to beat Dempsey. Trade with him, or even just stand in front of him, you die.

Ali had that chin and when he needed it he had a big punch. Dempsey would have to be at least as good as Frazier going forward and catching Ali going straight back. Could he do it? I think he could... But it took Frazier how long? And even if he did... Ali gets up. Ali faced some murderous punchers. I can see many reasons for picking Ali in this fight for sure.