It's actually impossible to gain punching power through gaining weight and "putting on" muscle

[billeau2]

This gets into muscle fiber type. Distance running (and gas tank in boxing) is about endurance. So distance runners who train primarily that will develop predominantly slow oxidative muscle fibers (type 1) that are slow to fatigue and produce low power contractions. The other two fibers are fast oxidative (type 2a) and fast glycolytic (type 2). Most types of lifting focus on low reps and "building muscle" eg muscle mass, which will develop type 2 fibers. Generally what that means is lots of slow power. You're training to move a lot of weight, sure, but if you're doing so slowly, the movement itself will be slow.

Muscle fibers can adapt to the type of training. Depending on the style of fighting you do, you need to develop either explosiveness (which will come at the expense of endurance), or endurance (which will come at the expense of explosiveness).

Remember how power is determined by mass times acceleration? Acceleration is the biggest component that we can affect, so if we want to increase power (or sprint speed), we need to develop explosiveness. Lifting weights doesn't do that. Plyometric training does. So if you're trying to maximize your speed in running, or your power in boxing, you do various types of plyometric training that are relevant to the movement you do. But, since you don't want it to come at the expense of endurance, you train it over longer sets and with less rest. Plyometric interval training is generally going to be one of the best ways to do that.

But you can sabotage your plyo also by using too much weight. Think about how high and fast you can jump without body weight vs how much slower your acceleration will be if you immediately throw on a weight vest. You don't want to use so much weight that it slows your acceleration down. So you start with body weight and work your way up with relatively light weights. Doesn't take a whole lot. That's one of the reasons jump rope is so helpful for boxers. As a general rule, you train specifically for what you want to do. If you want to move a lot of iron around for brief times, you lift weights. Otherwise, it's going to be counterproductive.

There's some relatively new research out about training things like tendons and nerves as well, but in broad strokes, that's what we're shooting for.

This is very true. Explosiveness is a key element here and developing the right type of muscle fibers one needs to explode into a movement. This does apply to punching power. Big hitters like Tyson had that quality of explosiveness. One of my favorite punchers who had this quality was Mayorga, El matador! Interesting aside: You can use weights to develop these qualities... It takes a specific kind of lift... You need to do a set where, at the last part of the extension you push the weight out as hard as you can, after lifting the weight uniformly for the rest of the movement.

[billeau2]

You are right about most of this, except for the premise I bolded. Lifting heavyweights has been proven to develop fast twitch muscle fibers, thats why sprinters squat, deadlift, and even RDL heavy. So while many here are arguing that being bulky and having heavier muscles does not increase your punch power (focusing on the mass portion) they are ignoring that you can recruit more fast twitch muscle fibers by lifting weights. In essence, muscle are what cause the acceleration.

Now, before ya'll jump down my throat about supporting just having bigger muscle bound fighters, thats not what I am writing. I am simply stating that all else being equal, more fast twitch muscle fibers increase acceleration (thats why sprinters are very muscular), and you can & do recruit more fast twitch muscle fibers by lifting heavy weights.

Of course, boxing is not a sprint sport, and thats why there needs to be a balance between developing muscle (being built like a sprinter) and building for stamina (being built like a distance runner)

A didn't see this post before. Lifting weights has a lot of variations. Developing fast twitch muscle is entirely possible using weights. It depends on how we lift. Circuit machines are also great for controlling aspects of the lift. If we train to lift a heavy weight that will exhaust us to muscle failure in... oh lets say 10 reps... But we lift it uniformly throughout the movement and really push up with every once at the last part of the movement, you engage fast twitch fibers... You also develop the entire length of muscle in the process. This is because explosive power often comes with the muscle initially taking a load, not necesarily from a point of no load.

[crimsonfalcon07]

- - Bottom line is the thread header by the OP is nonsensical on so many levels as to be...

It's not impossible, but it IS unlikely, because a lot of fighters end up training it wrong and putting the mass on wrong. You especially see this when a fighter goes above their natural weights on the first few fights, because it takes at least a year to really adapt the gas tank to the new demands of the body. More muscle consumes more oxygen.

So in fairness to the OP, it's pretty rare to see people actually get more knockouts from putting on muscle mass because they usually end up compromising something else, and it's almost always more beneficial to improve technique.

[billeau2]

- - Bottom line is the thread header by the OP is nonsensical on so many levels as to be...

YOU TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE POSTING NONSENSE?!! LOL!!! About 5% of your posts are NOT nonsense... At least on a good week.

[Bundana]

It's not impossible, but it IS unlikely, because a lot of fighters end up training it wrong and putting the mass on wrong. You especially see this when a fighter goes above their natural weights on the first few fights, because it takes at least a year to really adapt the gas tank to the new demands of the body. More muscle consumes more oxygen.

So in fairness to the OP, it's pretty rare to see people actually get more knockouts from putting on muscle mass because they usually end up compromising something else, and it's almost always more beneficial to improve technique.

Could it be, that if you put on a lot of weight, you will be facing heavier men... who can withstand heavier punches, than your lighter opponents?

For example, I find it hard to believe, that Jimmy Ellis didn't punch harder at 200 lbs than at 160. But of course at HW, he met several worldclass opponents, who likely took a punch much better than many of his MW opponents.

Also, I would assume (can't prove anything, of course), that James Toney at 215-240 punched harder than at 160... even though as a HW, he scored fewer knockouts.

[Willie Pep 229]

Could it be, that if you put on a lot of weight, you will be facing heavier men... who can withstand heavier punches, than your lighter opponents?

For example, I find it hard to believe, that Jimmy Ellis didn't punch harder at 200 lbs than at 160. But of course at HW, he met several worldclass opponents, who likely took a punch much better than many of his MW opponents.

Also, I would assume (can't prove anything, of course), that James Toney at 215-240 punched harder than at 160... even though as a HW, he scored fewer knockouts.

Tunney (leaving out the Dempsey fights) had six HW bouts, stopping five opponents inside the distance.

That translate into a 83% KO ratio

His over all record of 65 wins agsinst 48 stoppages comes out at 73%.

Seems he gained some power and statred taking out bigger men.

But that just anecdotal so it probably doesn't really tell us much.

[Bundana]

Tunney (leaving out the Dempsey fights) had six HW bouts, stopping five opponents inside the distance.

That translate into a 83% KO ratio

His over all record of 65 wins agsinst 48 stoppages comes out at 73%.

Seems he gained some power and statred taking out bigger men.

But that just anecdotal so it probably doesn't really tell us much.

Tunney's overall career KO% was actually only 56.5 (48 out of 85 fights) - so it does seem, like he might have gained some power, after he left his LHW days behind. However, the test sample is so small, that it's difficult to draw any firm conclusions in this regard.

But any way you look at it... I don't see how anyone can argue, that Tunney actually lost punching power, as he moved up in weight!

[Slugfester]

YOU TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE POSTING NONSENSE?!! LOL!!! :****you: About 5% of your posts are NOT nonsense... At least on a good week.

But remember: "The least of things with a meaning is worth more in life than the greatest of things without it."

[QueensburyRules]

It's not impossible, but it IS unlikely, because a lot of fighters end up training it wrong and putting the mass on wrong. You especially see this when a fighter goes above their natural weights on the first few fights, because it takes at least a year to really adapt the gas tank to the new demands of the body. More muscle consumes more oxygen.

So in fairness to the OP, it's pretty rare to see people actually get more knockouts from putting on muscle mass because they usually end up compromising something else, and it's almost always more beneficial to improve technique.

- - Michael Moorer jumped from a LH KO phenom to put on 50 lbs and was still KOing heavyweights.

175lb Hearns obliterates 147 Leonard. The Duran fighting Hagler does the same, and certainly decimates even more of his lightweight comp.

Got a lot of fellows here with noggins embedded in their arrears while reaching for the sky.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Could it be, that if you put on a lot of weight, you will be facing heavier men... who can withstand heavier punches, than your lighter opponents?

For example, I find it hard to believe, that Jimmy Ellis didn't punch harder at 200 lbs than at 160. But of course at HW, he met several worldclass opponents, who likely took a punch much better than many of his MW opponents.

Also, I would assume (can't prove anything, of course), that James Toney at 215-240 punched harder than at 160... even though as a HW, he scored fewer knockouts.

Not necessarily, especially if you already started at heavyweight for instance. The extra muscle mass may give you more punch resistance, but it's more what we talked about earlier. Putting on the wrong kind of muscle mass, or not training it correctly can slow down your ability to accelerate your punches. That's the biggest factor in power. A few extra pounds, even 10 or so, is still a relatively small percentage of your overall mass anyways, and if it doesn't increase your ability to accelerate, it's actually going to hurt your power. And many, maybe even most boxers, don't really know how to maximize the mass portion of the equation. Form but not function, as it were.

And that's leaving aside the effect on gas tank, which is going to negatively impact the ability to carry power into late rounds or get TKO's.

So fighting bigger guys may be a part of it, but you also have to do it correctly. There's a BIG difference between moving up in weight by not draining yourself to make weight and actually putting on extra mass that you weren't carrying before.