Tunney Versus jack Johnson who wins and why

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Tommy was a promoter with his own venue still full of pi$$ and vinegar offering him rematch while JJ was being pilloried in America and having to flee illicitly to France.

It's like U was born yesterday yet again today.

You gotta assume the money for a rematch, in Canada, would have been there. But you can also understand why JJ would first want to strut around a bit and then steer his own course.

I wonder if rematch clauses were viable back then? Wonder if JJ or any boxer back then could have been forced to honor one anyway.

JJ fought O'Brien, Ross, and Kaufman in 1909. Were any of those fights title defenses? They don't seem to be.

So JJ doesn't defend until Ketchel in the fall of '09. Then Jeffries in summer 1910.

After Jeffries he could have rematched Burns in Canada instead of running into all that political opposition in the States trying to find a venue for Fynn. Whom he already stopped earlier as well.

Not Flynn, but Burns should have followed Jeffries.

[QueensburyRules]

So it was t stopped becuse it was a one sided Massacre? Like I said, you're an idiot. Why would the cops stop the fight because of yelling from under the ring if it was competitive? Geez, you get ******er and ******er by the day.

- - I didn't write the news article. Go ask the reporter and the guys who crawled under the ring.

It's like U never learned to think for yourself.

[QueensburyRules]

Do you really believe this?
Let's look at it logically for a moment.
Burns did not win a round against Johnson ,so why would Johnson's seconds want the fight stopped?
What would be their motive?
Do you think it is feasible that Johnson's seconds left his corner and, in full view of a section of the audience crawled under the ring and began shouting and screaming so that the police could hear them, and they would then invade the ring and stop the fight? Just think about this before you humiliate yourself further!
Burns was saved by the bell in the 13th round,knocked down for 8 in the 14th and helpless ,his face dreadfully out of shape,when he arose, whereupon the police stepped in and stopped the slaughter.

- - Idjit, don't ask me, ask them. What scorecards?

Oh, wait, it's like U was born yesterday yet again today.

Deja Vu all over again...

[Ivich]

- - Idjit, don't ask me, ask them. What scorecards?

Oh, wait, it's like U was born yesterday yet again today.

Deja Vu all over again...

I'm asking YOU because YOU are the one making these extraordinary claims nobody else!

When you or anybody else make a statement the onus is on them to prove it.That's how it works.
You don't make a statement about someones actions and then say ask them what their motive was, I don't know!
They told me you were thick,they sure weren't lying!

[Ivich]

- - I didn't write the news article. Go ask the reporter and the guys who crawled under the ring.

It's like U never learned to think for yourself.

Nobody crawled under the ring ,there was no motive for Johnson's corner to stop a fight that rapidly developed into a one-sided massacre, a fight that Johnson deliberately prolonged to get his revenge on a man who treated him and spoke about him like he was dirt.

[JAB5239]

- - I didn't write the news article. Go ask the reporter and the guys who crawled under the ring.

It's like U never learned to think for yourself.

So you ran with the idea that Johnsons corner was under the ring shouting to stop the fight, and that's why the fight was stopped? Brilliant!! What's even more Brilliant is you cannot substantiate that claim. And the cherry on top....you claim it should have been a NC or that Johson should have been disqualified. BRILLIANT!!!!!

[JAB5239]

- - Idjit, don't ask me, ask them. What scorecards?

Oh, wait, it's like U was born yesterday yet again today.

Deja Vu all over again...

Who needs score cards? We have the biggest Jack Johnson hater in history telling us that, amongst many, many others. And what we have on film supports that. Stop the trolling!!

[Willie Pep 229]

So you ran with the idea that Johnsons corner was under the ring shouting to stop the fight, and that's why the fight was stopped? Brilliant!! What's even more Brilliant is you cannot substantiate that claim. And the cherry on top....you claim it should have been a NC or that Johson should have been disqualified. BRILLIANT!!!!!

Someone on here posted that . . . The contract stated that if the police stopped fight (maybe after a certain number of rounds ) that the referee would call the winner.

Thus Boxrec calls it a PTS win for JJ. But that's all based on what was posted here on BS. I have never seen conformation to that.

Someone also claimed to have seen the entire fight but no one seems able to point in that direction.

Ivich's posted a suggestion that all the prints are cut at the same point and no one knows who shut off the camera or when. (I hope I am not mis-representing his view.) I think that's were that probably lays. Too many people have too many possible reasons for wanting the camera off. Looks impossible to say who or why.

But certainly something odd happened and we don't get to see it.

I have heard the 'under the ring' story from several sources. It's a good story.

Other stories I've heard have the police stopping the fight so that Burns isn't KOed. But that may just be another story, from the other POV.

[Ivich]

Someone on here posted that . . . The contract stated that if the police stopped fight (maybe after a certain number of rounds ) that the referee would call the winner.

Thus Boxrec calls it a PTS win for JJ. But that's all based on what was posted here on BS. I have never seen conformation to that.

Someone also claimed to have seen the entire fight but no one seems able to point in that direction.

Ivich's posted a suggestion that all the prints are cut at the same point and no one knows who shut off the camera or when. (I hope I am not mis-representing his view.) I think that's were that probably lays. Too many people have too many possible reasons for wanting the camera off. Looks impossible to say who or why.

But certainly something odd happened and we don't get to see it.

I have heard the 'under the ring' story from several sources. It's a good story.

Other stories I've heard have the police stopping the fight so that Burns isn't KOed. But that may just be another story, from the other POV.

You stated my opinion correctly.
Steve Compton author and film collector said the last frame where Burns is on the verge of going down is in fact from an earlier round. Burns was certainly floored in the 14th round possibly twice .
Nobody has ever been able to come up with a plausible explanation of why Johnson's corner would want the one-sided blow out stopped.
Apparently the police entered the ring in an earlier round I believe the 13th ,and asked Burns if he wanted to continue and possibly to check on his jaw which was grotesquely swollen.Burns offered his opinion after the fight that the police stopped it because they feared his jaw was broken .I find that unconvincing myself.Burns condition was readily apparent from ringside and some spectators were calling for the fight to be stopped as early as the 8th round!

[JAB5239]

Someone on here posted that . . . The contract stated that if the police stopped fight (maybe after a certain number of rounds ) that the referee would call the winner.

Thus Boxrec calls it a PTS win for JJ. But that's all based on what was posted here on BS. I have never seen conformation to that.

Someone also claimed to have seen the entire fight but no one seems able to point in that direction.

Ivich's posted a suggestion that all the prints are cut at the same point and no one knows who shut off the camera or when. (I hope I am not mis-representing his view.) I think that's were that probably lays. Too many people have too many possible reasons for wanting the camera off. Looks impossible to say who or why.

But certainly something odd happened and we don't get to see it.

I have heard the 'under the ring' story from several sources. It's a good story.

Other stories I've heard have the police stopping the fight so that Burns isn't KOed. But that may just be another story, from the other POV.

Like many fights of the era, I doubt there is a full version. I too have read many of the stories of this fight. I doubt the "under the ring" story holds any merit. If it were true why did Johnson's seconds wait so long when it was such a one sided fight? The police stopping it so Burns wouldn't be knocked out makes since to me. I'm not sure what the political or racial outlook was with black Americans at that time in Australia, but I do know aboriginal racism was always a problem there. This, and the beating Johnson was giving Burns makes me lean in that direction.