Rocky vs Sonny Size Matchup

[Willie Pep 229]

Not saying you're wrong. So much of the past is just lies agreed upon. This is from the NYTimes.

clay-liston 1.jpg

[Willie Pep 229]

Interesting - here is the second fight, same source (NYT) - some numbers changed- somehow Clay grew a 1/2 inch and everybody lost weight.

ali-liston 2.jpg

[Ivich]

You can see the long arms in the photo.

Did Liston ever have any trouble fighting inside?
Did he ever have any trouble with a 5 feet ten inch 185lbs guy?
Did Marciano ever face a prime class 212lbs heavyweight with a huge reach who could hit like a truck?
If Liston could pick any type of opponent, he would opt for a slow, short ,come forward swarmer ,with a tiny reach and a tendency to cut.
Hopefully the referee for this matchup would show some mercy and rescue Rocky before he got too badly hammered and cut up.The third man in the Ingo v Machen fight ,or the Duran v Moore fight just might get Rocky killed.

[QueensburyRules]

Did Liston ever have any trouble fighting inside?
Did he ever have any trouble with a 5 feet ten inch 185lbs guy?
Did Marciano ever face a prime class 212lbs heavyweight with a huge reach who could hit like a truck?
If Liston could pick any type of opponent, he would opt for a slow, short ,come forward swarmer ,with a tiny reach and a tendency to cut.
Hopefully the referee for this matchup would show some mercy and rescue Rocky before he got too badly hammered and cut up.The third man in the Ingo v Machen fight ,or the Duran v Moore fight just might get Rocky killed.

- - Little 180 lb Marty Marshall broke his jaw to give him his first loss.

Marty Marshall

Few SD wins against little fellers also.

[Ivich]

- - Little 180 lb Marty Marshall broke his jaw to give him his first loss.

Marty Marshall

Few SD wins against little fellers also.

Marshall was a six feet and half inch 27 fight cutie Liston was a 7 fight novice Liston knocked him down but then suffered a broken jaw and lost a split dec.

The rematch with no broken jaw.

Marshall was down 4 times; for a 9-count at the end of round 5, and three times in round six.

The rubber match.
Marshall, a last minute substitute for Harold Johnson, lost all but the first round and it was even. Johnson hurt his shoulder while training for the bout. (UP) From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette- "Liston apparently planned to coast through the bout, and (Referee) McTiernan warned him twice to get in there and fight." Liston had Marshall on the verge of a knockout on several occasions, but the safety-minded Detroit fighter found a way to survive.

One split dec win over a small guy in his 3rd fight.

[Dr. Z]

People buy into 6' Liston's reach being 84" which is ridiculous.

If Fury fought back then, people would actually believe he was 6'9 for the sake of mythologising him as an old era ATG.

I cannot remember which fight this was in, but it registered Liston's reach as 80.5" on the tale of the tape.

Um. Fury is closer to 6'8" Tall but as tall as his listed height. When Ali fought Liston he was the bigger man, think about that.

[Ivich]

Um. Fury is closer to 6'8" Tall but as tall as his listed height. When Ali fought Liston he was the bigger man, think about that.

No! Liston was the bigger man in both fights.
1st fight Liston 215 3/4lbs Ali 208lbs =Liston 7 3/4lbs heavier
2nd fight Liston 218lbs Ali 2101/2lbs =Liston 71/2lbs heavier
The only size advantage Ali had was in height.
That only makes him taller, not bigger !

[Dr. Z]

No! Liston was the bigger man in both fights.
1st fight Liston 215 3/4lbs Ali 208lbs =Liston 7 3/4lbs heavier
2nd fight Liston 218lbs Ali 2101/2lbs =Liston 71/2lbs heavier
The only size advantage Ali had was in height.
That only makes him taller, not bigger !

I was referring to his height. You don't believe the listed reach, do you? On the tale of the tape, the weight is even by the way for the second fight and has Liston a mere 2 pounds.

[them_apples]

[/B]

It means that both of these guys walked around over 220... Either one could have chosen to bulk up, or... come in as light and agile as possible. The picture is revealing in this respect. it shows that weight is only one aspect of being a heavy weight. I tend to believe that liston was underrated. He was an incredible finisher, IMO the best @ heavyweight, he was mean in the ring, had agility power and that reach... hard to bet against the Rock but Liston imo was the goods and then some.

Rocky was susceptible to putting on weight. So naturally he had a phobia of it. He wouldn't touch a barbell because if he just picked one up he started bulking they said (In his book).
I think Liston was bigger and could carry more weight, but rocky is the type of Italian man that would probably be 300 lbs and smoke cigars if he wasn't a boxer.

Liston was 235 lbs I believe when he died, and this is generally about as heavy as he got in-between fights which surprised me, because Liston looks like he could be really heavy if he let himself go. Rocky hit about 255 lbs, and in his comp fight with Ali dropped weight to 235. Ali is another heavyweight that surprisingly got pretty heavy - In Ali's first layoff he was 235-240 lbs. Ali said he hated how his body put on weight so fast and he loved eating.

[them_apples]

No! Liston was the bigger man in both fights.
1st fight Liston 215 3/4lbs Ali 208lbs =Liston 7 3/4lbs heavier
2nd fight Liston 218lbs Ali 2101/2lbs =Liston 71/2lbs heavier
The only size advantage Ali had was in height.
That only makes him taller, not bigger !

you also gotta realize these tale of the tapes are basically BS they used them to sell fights and still do. They always tried to make it even in some way. or more even at least. My old coach said fighters always lied about weights after rehydrating.