The Bottom Half of Heavyweight Champions' List

[GhostofDempsey]

Clay/Norton III was not close. Norton beat the hell out of him. The judges were looking for any excuse to score rounds for Clay. Norton slams him to body practically breaking ribs, then Clay lands a few jabs and weak rights to win the next round. One reason Clay could win fights with weak shots was because they were so accurate. If he aimed for the chin, he hit the chin not the ear. Plus, he flat had greater will than his opponents.

I had Norton winning the entire trilogy.

[Willie Pep 229]

I had Norton winning the entire trilogy.

If Norton wins fight II the whole history of the game likely changes.

Certainly no Foreman fight and maybe no Trillia either. That second fight made Ali historically great. Granted the Foreman and Trillia fights are what we talk of today, but there is a strong maybe there might have been nothing to talk about had he suffered back to back Norton loses.

[QueensburyRules]

If Norton wins fight II the whole history of the game likely changes.

Certainly no Foreman fight and maybe no Trillia either. That second fight made Ali historically great. Granted the Foreman and Trillia fights are what we talk of today, but there is a strong maybe there might have been nothing to talk about had he suffered back to back Norton loses.

- - Ali made a purt fair living with rematches and trilogies, something like a dozen fights over all, but no big money immediate rematch with Foreman pretty much tell us where he was in that point where Ali was more likely to stink than pitch an epic.

[HOUDINI563]

I accidentally stuck this in the wrong thread.

Here are all the second order heavyweight champs. Bottom Half (No particular Order). Some of the men are far from their actual ranking, and some near. Charles Martin may indeed be the worst, and V. Klit may be about #50 on this list, though he is probably nearer the middle.

By extension, everyone not on this list must be in the upper half of heavyweight champs. Some just barely made it, like Corbett and Chris Byrd.


1 Charles Martin
2 Roy Jones
3 Tommy Burns
4 Marvin Hart
5 Trevor Bryan
6 Joseph Parker
7 Andy Ruiz
8 Bob Fitzsimmons
9 John L. Sullivan
10 Ruslan Chagaev
11 Manuel Char
12 Tony Joshua
13 Lucas Browne
14 Bermane Stiverne
15 Alexander Povetkin
16 David Haye
17 Sultan Ibragimov
18 Sam Peter
19 Shannon Brigg
20 Oleg Maskaev
21 Siarhei Liakhovich
22 Nicolai Valuev
23 Hasim Rahman
24 Lamon Brewster
25 John Ruiz
26 Herbie Hide
27 Henry Akinwande
28 Michael Moorer
29 Frank Bruno
30 Bruce Seldon
31 Michael Bentt
32 Franceso Damiani
33 Trevor Berbick
34 Tim Witherspoon
35 Michael Spinks
36 Tony Tubbs
37 Greg Page
38 Pinklon Thomas
39 Gerrie Coetzee
40 Michael Dokes
41 Ernie Terrel
42 Ingomar Johansson
43 John Tate
44 Mike Weaver
45 James J. Braddock
46 Primo Carnera
47 Jack Sharkey
48 Max Schmeling
49 Jess Willard
50 Vitali Klitschko
51 Jimmy Ellis
52 Leon Spinks
53 Corrie Sanders

Most of the fighters on this list were never heavyweight champion of the world.

Max Schmeling has no place on a “worst” list.

[GhostofDempsey]

If Norton wins fight II the whole history of the game likely changes.

Certainly no Foreman fight and maybe no Trillia either. That second fight made Ali historically great. Granted the Foreman and Trillia fights are what we talk of today, but there is a strong maybe there might have been nothing to talk about had he suffered back to back Norton loses.

True, I think Ali's legacy looks a lot different without the Foreman win.

[DeeMoney]

If we give the WBO title instant credibility as a legitimate title, and get rid of those who only held a "regular" belt, here is a list of the 81 men to lay claim to being the Heavyweight Champion of the world.

Andy Ruiz Jr.

Anthony Joshua

Bermane Stiverne

Bob Fitzsimmons

Bruce Seldon

Charles Martin

Chris Byrd

Corrie Sanders

David Haye

Deontay Wilder

Ernie Terrell

Evander Holyfield

Ezzard Charles

Floyd Patterson

Francesco Damiani

Frank Bruno

Gene Tunney

George Foreman

Gerrie Coetzee

Greg Page

Hasim Rahman

Henry Akinwande

Herbie Hide

Ingemar Johansson

Jack Dempsey

Jack Johnson

Jack Sharkey

James "Bonecrusher" Smith

James "Buster" Douglas

James J. Braddock

James J. Corbett

James J. Jeffries

Jersey Joe Walcott

Jess Willard

Jimmy Ellis

Joe Frazier

Joe Louis

John L. Sullivan

John Ruiz

John Tate

Joseph Parker

Ken Norton

Lamon Brewster

Larry Holmes

Lennox Lewis

Leon Spinks

Marvin Hart

Max Baer

Max Schmeling

Michael Bentt

Michael Dokes

Michael Moorer

Michael Spinks

Mike Tyson

Mike Weaver

Muhammad Ali

Nikolai Valuev

Oleg Maskaev

Oleksandr Usyk

Oliver McCall

Pinklon Thomas

Primo Carnera

Ray Mercer

Rid**** Bowe

Rocky Marciano

Roy Jones Jr.

Ruslan Chagaev

Samuel Peter

Shannon Briggs

Siarhei Liakhovich

Sonny Liston

Sultan Ibragimov

Tim Witherspoon

Tommy Burns

Tommy Morrison

Tony Tubbs

Tony Tucker

Trevor Berbick

Tyson Fury

Vitali Klitschko

Wladimir Klitschko

So I guess find the bottom 40.

[Willow The Wisp]

I accidentally stuck this in the wrong thread.

Here are all the second order heavyweight champs. Bottom Half (No particular Order). Some of the men are far from their actual ranking, and some near. Charles Martin may indeed be the worst, and V. Klit may be about #50 on this list, though he is probably nearer the middle.

By extension, everyone not on this list must be in the upper half of heavyweight champs. Some just barely made it, like Corbett and Chris Byrd.


1 Charles Martin
2 Roy Jones
3 Tommy Burns
4 Marvin Hart
5 Trevor Bryan
6 Joseph Parker
7 Andy Ruiz
8 Bob Fitzsimmons
9 John L. Sullivan
10 Ruslan Chagaev
11 Manuel Char
12 Tony Joshua
13 Lucas Browne
14 Bermane Stiverne
15 Alexander Povetkin
16 David Haye
17 Sultan Ibragimov
18 Sam Peter
19 Shannon Brigg
20 Oleg Maskaev
21 Siarhei Liakhovich
22 Nicolai Valuev
23 Hasim Rahman
24 Lamon Brewster
25 John Ruiz
26 Herbie Hide
27 Henry Akinwande
28 Michael Moorer
29 Frank Bruno
30 Bruce Seldon
31 Michael Bentt
32 Franceso Damiani
33 Trevor Berbick
34 Tim Witherspoon
35 Michael Spinks
36 Tony Tubbs
37 Greg Page
38 Pinklon Thomas
39 Gerrie Coetzee
40 Michael Dokes
41 Ernie Terrel
42 Ingomar Johansson
43 John Tate
44 Mike Weaver
45 James J. Braddock
46 Primo Carnera
47 Jack Sharkey
48 Max Schmeling
49 Jess Willard
50 Vitali Klitschko
51 Jimmy Ellis
52 Leon Spinks
53 Corrie Sanders

A for effort. You've compiled a list relevant to the topic. The stirring lack of effort seen reading up to this point compells the congratulations. If I asked about the omission of one Monte Masters, you would inform me with "Oh, no. Legitimate Sanctioning Bodies only"; to which I'd be forced to reply "Look at some of those fighters once called Heavyweight Champion of the World by the WBC, WBA, IBF and WBO, and tell me with a strait face which Legitimate Sanctioning Bodies you're referring to ".

[Willow The Wisp]

I dislike the premise of acquiesce to any Sanctioning body that can rent an office and print their stationary regarding the most important title in sports. At heavyweight and if only at heavyweight, title lineage is quite clear. I further don't love the disrespectful notion of compiling a worst champion list. It smacks me like a "tallest dwarfs" list. Looking for crappy fighers that want people to pay to see them be crappy fighters? Watch BKBC, UFC or any other minor league combat sport where even the fighers themselves, by virtue of the sport they've picked to train for, don't deserve much compensation for the display of their talents.

[Willie Pep 229]

I dislike the premise of acquiesce to any Sanctioning body that can rent an office and print their stationary regarding the most important title in sports. At heavyweight and if only at heavyweight, title lineage is quite clear. I further don't love the disrespectful notion of compiling a worst champion list. It smacks me like a "tallest dwarfs" list. Looking for crappy fighers that want people to pay to see them be crappy fighters? Watch BKBC, UFC or any other minor league combat sport where even the fighers themselves, by virtue of the sport they've picked to train for, don't deserve much compensation for the display of their talents.

I thought Lefty was creating the list so as to weed out the bottom half to save us from arguing pointless fantasy fights. (All fantasy fights are pointless, I got that, but sometimes the match ups on here get quite silly, e.g. Louis v. Qwai.)

Those not listed would, by consensus, be ATGs.

I don't think he meant it as a freak show of losers, just a different way to approach an old argument.

P.S. Tallest dwarf. Cute!

[Ivich]

Oh, you got it all figured out. I didn't realize.

You're not here to discuss, share, and debate, you're here to lecture us. Which of course makes perfect sense, since you got the whole story figured out. Amazing I never knew that history had a definitive answer.

Bye, bye.

You asked a question I gave you an answer,If you disagree with my reply tell me which rounds Burns won against Johnson?Simple request .
I've not got the whole story figured out I'm an average fight fan, but I sure didn't need long to figure you out! lol
You're still butt hurt because you didnt know more than half the old time heavyweight fights did not have formal weigh ins .Serious suggestion instead of trying to comeback with silly, sarcastic , and spurious replies, why don't you devote some time to actually learning about this sport instead of lazily relying on Box rec?
It might actually make your responses worth reading.