The Bottom Half of Heavyweight Champions' List

[Willie Pep 229]

Maybe not 10, but he also had many underwhelming performances against average/poor opponents, and barely dominated anyone. C'mon Willie, just admit it, you have a Tyson Fury poster on your wall as the pride of your bedroom. Nash out.

Ok that I can agree with - way too much stalling during the Muhammad Ali period (except for Frazier III that was a fantastic performance).

My mother made me take down the poster.

[HOUDINI563]

Name ten.

I'll get you started Norton III; OK I just ran out of gift decision tell me the other nine.

Ali Norton 3 was a very close fight. Mercante perhaps the premier ref of the 70’s stated that this was the most difficult to score bout he was ever involved.

It is almost unknown today but the first time this fight was broadcast on prime time TV was several weeks after it occurred. A panel of experts that included former great champions such as Pep, trainers and writers scored the fight round after round. At the end of the fight all the scores were compiled to reveal the winner… A DRAW.

It was Norton’s bout to win but he made such a terrible decision to throw away rounds as the challenger for the worlds heavyweight championship. He should have fought each round all out to win but he didn’t. He threw away round 15 and I believe at least round nine (allowing Ali to hit him).

[Willie Pep 229]

Ali Norton 3 was a very close fight. Mercante perhaps the premier ref of the 70’s stated that this was the most difficult to score bout he was ever involved.

It is almost unknown today but the first time this fight was broadcast on prime time TV was several weeks after it occurred. A panel of experts that included former great champions such as Pep, trainers and writers scored the fight round after round. At the end of the fight all the scores were compiled to reveal the winner… A DRAW.

It was Norton’s bout to win but he made such a terrible decision to throw away rounds as the challenger for the worlds heavyweight championship. He should have fought each round all out to win but he didn’t. He threw away round 15 and I believe at least round nine (allowing Ali to hit him).

I agree with you, it was Norton's to lose - this was the beginning of the Ali slide - his last great fight was behind him - But Norton should have realized what Nash Out is correct about - you want to beat Ali in a decision by one round on the score cards you better be three rounds up in the fight.

[HOUDINI563]

I agree with you, it was Norton's to lose - this was the beginning of the Ali slide - his last great fight was behind him - But Norton should have realized what Nash Out is correct about - you want to beat Ali in a decision by one round on the score cards you better be three rounds up in the fight.

I attended this bout and at the time an avid Ali hater. I scored the fight 8-7 for Norton. Since I’ve watched the bout numerous times and I score it typically by one round for Ali. At the same time my position concerning Ali’s greatness has softened considerably. I rate him as the best.

It was an exceedingly difficult fight to score with Norton taking a significant lead over the first half of the fight and then Ali winning round after round as he began to fight and Norton coasted. It came down to the final round and Norton just stood there refusing to do much of anything for 2:40 of the round only attacking the final 15-20 seconds. Ali took the round and the fight.

Norton must have regretted the manner he fought the latter half of this fight for the rest of his life.

[The Old LefHook]

Clay/Norton III was not close. Norton beat the hell out of him. The judges were looking for any excuse to score rounds for Clay. Norton slams him to body practically breaking ribs, then Clay lands a few jabs and weak rights to win the next round. One reason Clay could win fights with weak shots was because they were so accurate. If he aimed for the chin, he hit the chin not the ear. Plus, he flat had greater will than his opponents.

[HOUDINI563]

Clay/Norton III was not close. Norton beat the hell out of him. The judges were looking for any excuse to score rounds for Clay. Norton slams him to body practically breaking ribs, then Clay lands a few jabs and weak rights to win the next round. One reason Clay could win fights with weak shots was because they were so accurate. If he aimed for the chin, he hit the chin not the ear. Plus, he flat had greater will than his opponents.

It is almost unknown today but the first time this fight was broadcast on prime time TV was several weeks after it occurred. A panel of experts that included former great champions such as Pep, trainers and writers scored the fight round after round. At the end of the fight all the scores were compiled to reveal the winner… A DRAW.

Mercante rated as one if boxings greatest refs stated this fight was the most difficult to score of any bout he was ever involved.

[Ivich]

Who says - Nat Fleischer? - How do you know he wasn't competitive other than you heard it a thousand times?

Because I have seen what footage there is of the fight and read the next day fight reports and several biographies with contemporary reports in them.

[Willie Pep 229]

Because I have seen what footage there is of the fight and read the next day fight reports and several biographies with contemporary reports in them.

Oh, you got it all figured out. I didn't realize.

You're not here to discuss, share, and debate, you're here to lecture us. Which of course makes perfect sense, since you got the whole story figured out. Amazing I never knew that history had a definitive answer.

Bye, bye.

[The Old LefHook]

I accidentally stuck this in the wrong thread.

Here are all the second order heavyweight champs. Bottom Half (No particular Order). Some of the men are far from their actual ranking, and some near. Charles Martin may indeed be the worst, and V. Klit may be about #50 on this list, though he is probably nearer the middle.

By extension, everyone not on this list must be in the upper half of heavyweight champs. Some just barely made it, like Corbett and Chris Byrd.


1 Charles Martin
2 Roy Jones
3 Tommy Burns
4 Marvin Hart
5 Trevor Bryan
6 Joseph Parker
7 Andy Ruiz
8 Bob Fitzsimmons
9 John L. Sullivan
10 Ruslan Chagaev
11 Manuel Char
12 Tony Joshua
13 Lucas Browne
14 Bermane Stiverne
15 Alexander Povetkin
16 David Haye
17 Sultan Ibragimov
18 Sam Peter
19 Shannon Brigg
20 Oleg Maskaev
21 Siarhei Liakhovich
22 Nicolai Valuev
23 Hasim Rahman
24 Lamon Brewster
25 John Ruiz
26 Herbie Hide
27 Henry Akinwande
28 Michael Moorer
29 Frank Bruno
30 Bruce Seldon
31 Michael Bentt
32 Franceso Damiani
33 Trevor Berbick
34 Tim Witherspoon
35 Michael Spinks
36 Tony Tubbs
37 Greg Page
38 Pinklon Thomas
39 Gerrie Coetzee
40 Michael Dokes
41 Ernie Terrel
42 Ingomar Johansson
43 John Tate
44 Mike Weaver
45 James J. Braddock
46 Primo Carnera
47 Jack Sharkey
48 Max Schmeling
49 Jess Willard
50 Vitali Klitschko
51 Jimmy Ellis
52 Leon Spinks
53 Corrie Sanders

[Willie Pep 229]

My learning curve must be flat. Thirty minutes have gone by and I still don't know half the names on this list. Lol

Here's a thought, let's take the most obscure name on the list, go over to NSB as a group and start talking the guy up, claiming Tyson Fury wouldn't last three rounds with him.

See what kind of responses we get. I'll bet half of them will claim they know all about the guy and what's wrong with his style.