Best MW Champion since Marvin Hagler?

[QueensburyRules]

Your point is none of Golovkin's win's will make the HOF and use a guy who's not in the HOF as an example? I don't get it.

Nunn's not a HOF'er nor close to it. I don't even think Nunn is much better than Danny Jacobs.

Canelo's the best opponent between them at MW, and the large majority thought Golovkin won that first fight. So there's that aswell.

It's irrelevant anyway, Golovkin is by far a more accomplished MW than Toney and I'd imagine he'll be ranked higher than him on any MW list worth it's salt.

- - It's clear GGG the best since Marv, but not the best since Monzon.

No middle has his KO title % save Marv, no middle was ducked more than him, and no middle so thoroughly emasculated Americans in their flagship division as did GGG, the middleweight Klitschko bros.

In short, two HOFers refused his offer, l'l Floydy at 154 and 155, and Wart at 164...Yup!

[Willie Pep 229]

[/B]

- - It's clear GGG the best since Marv, but not the best since Monzon.

No middle has his KO title % save Marv, no middle was ducked more than him, and no middle so thoroughly emasculated Americans in their flagship division as did GGG, the middleweight Klitschko bros.

In short, two HOFers refused his offer, l'l Floydy at 154 and 155, and Wart at 164...Yup!

I would say that HW has been the American flag ship division (until it wasn't circa 2000). Did a foreign HW champ (pre Lewis) ever have a successful defense? Fitzsimmons; Schmeling; Carnera; Johansson.

P.S. Fitz probably should be considered an American champion anyway.

[Chollo Vista]

I'd say Hopkins

[tokon]

Your point is none of Golovkin's win's will make the HOF and use a guy who's not in the HOF as an example? I don't get it.

Nunn's not a HOF'er nor close to it. I don't even think Nunn is much better than Danny Jacobs.

Canelo's the best opponent between them at MW, and the large majority thought Golovkin won that first fight. So there's that aswell.

It's irrelevant anyway, Golovkin is by far a more accomplished MW than Toney and I'd imagine he'll be ranked higher than him on any MW list worth it's salt.

Imo golovkin is not a "by far more accomplished MW than Toney". Accepting that Nunn isn't hof, neither are any of golovkins opponents. Canelo beat golovkin - albeit a little past his prime - and would have given Toney he'll.

[Chollo Vista]

Its been over 35 years since the great Marvin Hagler successfully defended his middleweight title; since then, over 40 men have laid claim to one of the titles he held (not counting the WBO in this discussion). Of those, 24 of them had multiple title defenses at 160 lbs. they are listed here:

Arthur Abraham
Bernard Hopkins
Daniel Geale
Daniel Jacobs
Felix Sturm
Gennady Golovkin
Gerald McClellan
James Toney
Jermain Taylor
Jermall Charlo
Jorge Fernando Castro
Julian Jackson
Julio César Chávez Jr.
Keith Holmes
Kelly Pavlik
Michael Nunn
Mike McCallum
Reggie Johnson
Ryota Murata
Sebastian Sylvester
Sebastian Zbik
Sergio Martínez
Sumbu Kalambay
William Joppy

What I am asking, is of these who was the best in their prime at MW? Not who had the best resume, but rather who would do the best H2H of the rest. If these fighters, all fought each other in mythical matchups while at their MW primes who would end up with the best record? Anyone you see as a clear favorite (23-0)? Who are the top few? Its been a long time since the Marvelous one owned the MW division, who has been the best since?

Where's Roy Jones, Cotto or Canelo on this list?

How can you have Geale, Joppy, Zbik, etc and not Roy Jones or Canelo at the least?

I understand the claim about "title defenses", but if the ultimate question is about who would win head to head, you have to include Roy Jones.

For the record, Roy beats the whole list prime for prime. Some guy's in the same night

[DeeMoney]

Where's Roy Jones, Cotto or Canelo on this list?

How can you have Geale, Joppy, Zbik, etc and not Roy Jones or Canelo at the least?

I understand the claim about "title defenses", but if the ultimate question is about who would win head to head, you have to include Roy Jones.

For the record, Roy beats the whole list prime for prime. Some guy's in the same night

I chose an arbitrary cutoff to keep the list focused and a reasonable number.

RJJ is probably better than all of them in his prime, but then again his prime was at 168. Heck he was fighting at SMW before dropping down to win the MW title; he then went back up to SMW for a year before his lone title defense at 160. Love RJJ, but he really wasn't a middleweight, and like I wrote I had to draw a line somewhere and wanted to keep bias out of it.

Canelo had even less time spent at 160, he has more MW title fights but half of those were at a catchweight below the MW limit. Ditto Cotto.

[IronDanHamza]

Imo golovkin is not a "by far more accomplished MW than Toney". Accepting that Nunn isn't hof, neither are any of golovkins opponents. Canelo beat golovkin - albeit a little past his prime - and would have given Toney he'll.

I mean, maybe not "by far" because his resume is thin.

But I'd imagine any historical list will have Golovkin ahead of Toney (At Middleweight)

[joseph5620]

That may be true, but the question isnt about resume (who you beat). Its about who would win if they faced each other. Thats not to write that Hopkins still wouldnt be the best MW since Hagler, just that its about how hood he was in your opinion- not his opponents.

If that's the case I would pick both Toney and Hopkins over Golovkin.

[ShoulderRoll]

I mean, maybe not "by far" because his resume is thin.

But I'd imagine any historical list will have Golovkin ahead of Toney (At Middleweight)

Seeing as how both resumes are thin those lists would be favoring quantity over quality.

[IronDanHamza]

Seeing as how both resumes are thin those lists would be favoring quantity over quality.

Nah.

Toney has draws against unranked fighters, a bad loss to an unranked fighter, bad performances against unranked fighters multiple times, no longevity, that all go against him.

Golovkin will get ranked highly the same way Hopkins is just to a lesser degree. Longevity in a weak era.

Toney never see's a Top 10 list at MW, ever. Golovkin likely will.