Roy Jones was an ATG but he was also a cherry picker

[them_apples]

Roy wanted 60% and rightfully so, Jones was a much bigger attraction than Hopkins at that time. Hopkins wouldn't agree to Roy getting 60%.

This is just one of their exchanges on the issue:

Well all things considered the rematch would have been in Jones favor who was already adjusted at the weight. I probably wouldn't fall for that bait either.

[markusmod]

Well all things considered the rematch would have been in Jones favor who was already adjusted at the weight. I probably wouldn't fall for that bait either.

Hopkins was greedy as hell back then. Nobody really knew who he was outside of the win over Trinidad. Jones was a household name.

[Anthony342]

we shouldn't even call it cherry picking anymore, since its obvious "career management" was part of every boxers career. You had to have a good fighter but also a good game plan to get a title shot in the first place.

In 2 of Jones biggest wins, Hopkins and Toney - I sincerely believe he dodged them after beating them. He shoe shined both those wins, aka he dazzled them with his speed and sold it to the judges - but in both fights if you watch blow for blow on effective punching they were actually close fights. Even for Toney, who is often used as a highlight real. I'm convinced Hopkins figured Jones out in the last few rounds of their fight, and it makes sense because Hopkins was considered green.

If Toney and Hopkins had rematches I'm positive it wouldn't have been all green for Jones. Jones dodged them by moving up in weight and fighting bigger but ****tier opponents which in turn sells tickets to the casuals. In reality its the fighter that matters.

In Jones vs Hopkins, Jones never landed anything of note on Hopkins. Nothing that did any real damage, for 12 rounds. If anything Hopkins tagged Jones with fewer but better shots.

Toney vs Jones is clearly toney being arrogant and not being prepared for Jones lightening speed but hopelessly ineffective assault on toney, who looked like he just got out of bed. Even still Toney is often inches away from catching Jones cold throughout the fight. He also landed some good bombs, and if Toney was prepared and came for the title I'm certain he'd kill Jones.

Doesn't matter how good the punches are. Only who lands MORE punches in a round. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Even if close fights, Jones still wins. But yes, he cherry picked big time after that, Mayweather levels of cherry picking. Now watch, by saying that we're gonna get all the supporters coming out of the woodwork giving reasons why fights didn't happen. Jones didn't wanna fight in another country to fight Dariusz Michalczewski.

Then why didn't Dariusz come to the US? I'm sicking of hearing about this guy didn't agree to drug testing or that guy priced himself out. In the end, all that matters is the big fights didn't happen when these guys were in their prime and that still counts against them on their records. Just like we would've counted it against Ali's record if he would've ended up not being able to fight Joe Frazier for whatever reason. And against Frazier as well.

[Willie Pep 229]

Doesn't matter how good the punches are. Only who lands MORE punches in a round. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Even if close fights, Jones still wins. But yes, he cherry picked big time after that, Mayweather levels of cherry picking. Now watch, by saying that we're gonna get all the supporters coming out of the woodwork giving reasons why fights didn't happen. Jones didn't wanna fight in another country to fight Dariusz Michalczewski.

Then why didn't Dariusz come to the US? I'm sicking of hearing about this guy didn't agree to drug testing or that guy priced himself out. In the end, all that matters is the big fights didn't happen when these guys were in their prime and that still counts against them on their records. Just like we would've counted it against Ali's record if he would've ended up not being able to fight Joe Frazier for whatever reason. And against Frazier as well.

Because it is wrong. That's how one scores amateur boxing this is professional prize fighting. Why can't you understand that?

[them_apples]

Doesn't matter how good the punches are. Only who lands MORE punches in a round. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Even if close fights, Jones still wins. But yes, he cherry picked big time after that, Mayweather levels of cherry picking. Now watch, by saying that we're gonna get all the supporters coming out of the woodwork giving reasons why fights didn't happen. Jones didn't wanna fight in another country to fight Dariusz Michalczewski.

Then why didn't Dariusz come to the US? I'm sicking of hearing about this guy didn't agree to drug testing or that guy priced himself out. In the end, all that matters is the big fights didn't happen when these guys were in their prime and that still counts against them on their records. Just like we would've counted it against Ali's record if he would've ended up not being able to fight Joe Frazier for whatever reason. And against Frazier as well.

Yeah, this isn't how you score a professional fight. Effective punching is how it is scored.

[djtmal]

Roy got my respect. I thought he was cherrypicking as well but when he stepped down from hw and gutted it out against Tarver, I had to give him his props.

Also soundly whitewashed Reggie Johnson, another guy I thought he avoided at 160. Very underrated win imo a lot of ppl though he beat Toney.

[QueensburyRules]

Doesn't matter how good the punches are. Only who lands MORE punches in a round. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Even if close fights, Jones still wins. But yes, he cherry picked big time after that, Mayweather levels of cherry picking. Now watch, by saying that we're gonna get all the supporters coming out of the woodwork giving reasons why fights didn't happen. Jones didn't wanna fight in another country to fight Dariusz Michalczewski.

Then why didn't Dariusz come to the US? I'm sicking of hearing about this guy didn't agree to drug testing or that guy priced himself out. In the end, all that matters is the big fights didn't happen when these guys were in their prime and that still counts against them on their records. Just like we would've counted it against Ali's record if he would've ended up not being able to fight Joe Frazier for whatever reason. And against Frazier as well.

- - Stick to roided 'rasslers Antony.

Fights not scored by landing the most punches otherwise U candy boys be the top fighters in history. Effective punches the key, one punch being the best. Ain't compufraud.

If U wasn't even conceived back when, then U know Darius showed up on a HBO Roy fight card when he was gonna tie Rockys record to lobby for a Roy fight worth in Germany 3x more $ than than Roy was getting from HBO. Roy and his HBO paymasters shut Darius down.

Both lost their next fights, Darius by decision and Roy by KO...you're welcome...

[Anthony342]

Yeah, this isn't how you score a professional fight. Effective punching is how it is scored.

If that were true, two of the three judges wouldn't have given the decision to Sugar Ray Leonard over Marvin Hagler. Leonard landed a good deal more than Hagler in at least 7 of the 12 rounds, which is why he won on 2 of the judges cards. So yes this is how you score a professional fight. It's done quite often.

[Willie Pep 229]

If that were true, two of the three judges wouldn't have given the decision to Sugar Ray Leonard over Marvin Hagler. Leonard landed a good deal more than Hagler in at least 7 of the 12 rounds, which is why he won on 2 of the judges cards. So yes this is how you score a professional fight. It's done quite often.

No, Leonard not only landed more punches he was also more effective with those punches.

Most often than not the fighter who lands MORE will be the more effective fighter BUT it is not the end all of the scoring.

An example in the other direction was Chavez-Taylor. Taylor out landed Chavez by quite a few punches, and to the 'punch counters' who really didn't understand what they were watching foolishly thought Taylor was winning the fight (Harold the Unofficial Idiot Letterman for one) but to someone who understands the fight game could see that Chavez was beating Taylor a slow death with considerablely fewer punches. Chavez SHOULD have been winning a UD when it was stopped, but he wasn't (1-2) because we have corrupted the fight game with judges who have reduced the game to counting punches and really don't understand the fight game any longer.

Watch Dan Duffrey call Marciano-Walcott I -- for 13 rounds he calls the FIGHT in front of him, he mentions the judges only ONCE, saying they probably have Walcott ahead. He says it once in 13 rounds. And he never mentions the silly sounding word "points" or the phrase 'score cards' (not once) - that is just something he'll address only if it is needed at the end - he instead calls the fight and evaluates the the effectiveness of the fighters and isn't impressed with ineffective punches or the number landed.

[markusmod]

No, Leonard not only landed more punches he was also more effective with those punches.

Most often than not the fighter who lands MORE will be the more effective fighter BUT it is not the end all of the scoring.

An example in the other direction was Chavez-Taylor. Taylor out landed Chavez by quite a few punches, and to the 'punch counters' who really didn't understand what they were watching foolishly thought Taylor was winning the fight (Harold the Unofficial Idiot Letterman for one) but to someone who understands the fight game could see that Chavez was beating Taylor a slow death with considerablely fewer punches. Chavez SHOULD have been winning a UD when it was stopped, but he wasn't (1-2) because we have corrupted the fight game with judges who have reduced the game to counting punches and really don't understand the fight game any longer.

Watch Dan Duffrey call Marciano-Walcott I -- for 13 rounds he calls the FIGHT in front of him, he mentions the judges only ONCE, saying they probably have Walcott ahead. He says it once in 13 rounds. And he never mentions the silly sounding word "points" or the phrase 'score cards' (not once) - that is just something he'll address only if it is needed at the end - he instead calls the fight and evaluates the the effectiveness of the fighters and isn't impressed with ineffective punches or the number landed.

Lederman was drunk half the time when he was scoring.