Roy Jones, Jr: The best ever at 175 lbs

[IronDanHamza]

I really thought Jimmy Slattery was the red flag.

He won a 10 points fight against Maxie Rosenbloom and got labeled the NBA champion. Tried to unify against Loughran (NYSAC) a few months later but came up short. Then went on a 20 plus non-title run for three years, refusing to defend, losing to Braddock and Rosenbloom along the way. Finally trying, after three years, to unify against the new NYSAC champ Rosenbloom he came up short again.

He was either LHW (NBA) champion for three months or three years depending how you want to interpert it. He was never actually THE LHW champion.

Did lose close fights to Maxie and Tommy though have to give him that.

P.S. The guy above doesn't like me much, because I won't worship at the alter of his self proclaimed expertise, he doesn't handle that well, so I must be a fraud. I am not actually sure how one can be a historical fraud, but to toot my own self proclaimed 'expertise' let me just mention I named my children Dempsey and Louis. I have been at this for a while, like 45 years now. I am a retired 30 year history teacher. LOL I must be a very good fraud. BTW if one can learn from Google why is that a bad thing? I guess the guy above must be the assigned guy on BS who decides who is and isn't a fraud, it's an easy standard just agree with him, then you're an expert too.

Finally let me add that I think all this fansty fight stuff is crap. Just a bunch of guys having a pis sing contest, for some reason believeing that their opinion on these make-believe fights is moore important than the other guy. I am a bit of a troll when it comes to these type of coversations; I am waiting for Bill's magic machine to be developed then we'll know the truth.

Fantasy fights are just that, fantasy. We don’t know the answers outside of our opinions, when matching a great with another great.

We do however know the answer when matching a Roy Jones with a Willie Pastrano. We know who wins that fight and it’s Roy Jones 100 times out of 100.

It’s the equivalent to matching Sugar Ray Leonard with Carlos Baldomir, we know who wins that fight 100 times out of 100.

Not saying Baldomir was as good as Pastrano of course, although both Baldomir and Pastrano are probably the weakest ever Champions at their respective weight, or atleast arguably.

You get the point.

[Willie Pep 229]

Fantasy fights are just that, fantasy. We don’t know the answers outside of our opinions, when matching a great with another great.

We do however know the answer when matching a Roy Jones with a Willie Pastrano. We know who wins that fight and it’s Roy Jones 100 times out of 100.

It’s the equivalent to matching Sugar Ray Leonard with Carlos Baldomir, we know who wins that fight 100 times out of 100.

Not saying Baldomir was as good as Pastrano of course, although both Baldomir and Pastrano are probably the weakest ever Champions at their respective weight, or atleast arguably.

You get the point.

Yes of course but I don't think you got my point. -- anyway Bill's magic machine will say it never comes out 100% of the time. What if they fight ten thousand times; what if in one fight Jones gets hit by lightning. The figure is always 99.999 times never100. What's the definition of fantasy?

Anyway the Italian line was a tease but you sure don't like Willie much.

[markusmod]

If you go off purely the eye test then yes, possibly the best 175 lb’er ever, but in terms of accolades no. Was never fully undisputed or lineal.

Who was lineal? He had every belt, but the WBO from what I remember. He had like 7 belts (3 majors and 4 minor organizations)

[The Old LefHook]

No quality is more necessary to an ATG than chin. Jones may be the greatest fighter without a chin in history. That is still a long ways from being the best fighter in history. For this, you move up one class to Marciano, Langford and sailor Tom Sharkey, and the like.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Who was lineal? He had every belt, but the WBO from what I remember. He had like 7 belts (3 majors and 4 minor organizations)

Dariusz Michalczewski he beat Virgil Hill for the lineal title in 97 I think. Roy beat Hill the following year.

[billeau2]

I’m convinced this Willie Pep poster is a fraud in all honesty. He’s what I describe as a “Google historian”.

Willie Pastrano beating a prime Roy Jones. FFS man that’s a real awful take.

Well.... I have it as a fact, a documented fact... Willie pastrami beat Joe Corn Beef, the ref, Russian Dressing, deducted a point from Joe because a Ruben is not Kosher and does not belong next to a Knish, or a dr brown's celery soda... does not belong in a ***ish deli. There were protests that the corn beef was cut lean, as well... Never the less the decision held.

[billeau2]

roys weakness was being pressured to the ropes, he lost rounds vs hopkins doing this. young hopkins threw a lot more than hold hopkins and could apply effective pressure. Toney was going to always be at a disadvantage against roy, whether he was weight drained or not. he likes to counter, even when he puts a huge output he is countering and roy is too fast to counter consistently.

look when roy finally was getting ran over, he lost his timing and they werent afraid of his power. glen johnson - pressure fighter. tarver - inside punch and roy is bad at the inside, him at cruiser the guys just pressed him to the ropes and werent concerned with his power. These weaknesses went back to the Hopkins fight but in that case it just dropped him a few rounds, he had his reflexes there and hopkins had a hell of a time trying to land on Roy who was so quick. hopkins faught as good a fight as he possibly could strategy wise. I think you get like a marvin hagler at 160, i think he wins some rounds vs Roy but cant win the fight.

Dude great analysis! Yes... You don't counter Roy, or Ali for that matter... Too fast. Frazier knew Ali stepped straight back and caught him that way... Toney,incredible a fighter as some of us think he is, was not going to counter the speed of Roy. Just a bad match up for Toney.

And yes! Roy used to feint guys off of him and once they saw him get tagged lol, they lost the fear of God and Roy lol.

So here is how i reason about 175. Certainly some guys like Spinks, who was spooked by Tyson, might well be spooked by Roy... But some of the better fighters at light heavy were tough and would not be feinted out of the fight. Guys like Slappsy maxie did not have the athletic talent necessarily to beat Roy, but guys like Tunney... Even guys like Foster, who had that crunching power... And I could name about 10 guys who I think beat Roy at 175... but at 168 there are a lot fewer.

[QueensburyRules]

Dude great analysis! Yes... You don't counter Roy, or Ali for that matter... Too fast. Frazier knew Ali stepped straight back and caught him that way... Toney,incredible a fighter as some of us think he is, was not going to counter the speed of Roy. Just a bad match up for Toney.

And yes! Roy used to feint guys off of him and once they saw him get tagged lol, they lost the fear of God and Roy lol.

So here is how i reason about 175. Certainly some guys like Spinks, who was spooked by Tyson, might well be spooked by Roy... But some of the better fighters at light heavy were tough and would not be feinted out of the fight. Guys like Slappsy maxie did not have the athletic talent necessarily to beat Roy, but guys like Tunney... Even guys like Foster, who had that crunching power... And I could name about 10 guys who I think beat Roy at 175... but at 168 there are a lot fewer.

- -168 was LH in the day of U stated heros.

Really, no need to ask what grade U in anymore.

[uncle ben]

If you go off purely the eye test then yes, possibly the best 175 lb’er ever, but in terms of accolades no. Was never fully undisputed or lineal.

I could even see him beating Joe Frazier and making Frazier look hapless

[uncle ben]

No quality is more necessary to an ATG than chin. Jones may be the greatest fighter without a chin in history. That is still a long ways from being the best fighter in history. For this, you move up one class to Marciano, Langford and sailor Tom Sharkey, and the like.

RJJ would punish Langford and Sharkey.