Prime Tyson could have been the best ever??

[Franko]

Tyson was always grossly overrated by fanboys and still is. His prime was relatively short for a 'reason'.

His prime may have been short, but it was explosive enough to leave Tyson with the reputation as one of the greatest fighters in heavyweight history. During his prime he beat Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker over a period of ten months to become the undisputed heavyweight champion. The heavyweight division is classed as poor at the time because it looked like there would be few fighters capable of 'testing' Tyson. Berbick, Smith, and Tucker beat Pinklon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon, and Buster Douglas to win the titles that Tyson took from them... Those names would make today's heavyweight division a damn sight better!
Also, those who say that Tyson lacked heart don't have a clue... First and foremost, you need heart to step into a boxing ring, but i suggest that those who believe that Tyson lacked heart should take a look at the Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield 1, and Lennox Lewis fights... All fights that Tyson lost in a space of over ten years, but fights in which Tyson showed incredible 'heart.'

[Poet682006]

His prime may have been short, but it was explosive enough to leave Tyson with the reputation as one of the greatest fighters in heavyweight history. During his prime he beat Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker over a period of ten months to become the undisputed heavyweight champion. The heavyweight division is classed as poor at the time because it looked like there would be few fighters capable of 'testing' Tyson. Berbick, Smith, and Tucker beat Pinklon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon, and Buster Douglas to win the titles that Tyson took from them... Those names would make today's heavyweight division a damn sight better!
Also, those who say that Tyson lacked heart don't have a clue... First and foremost, you need heart to step into a boxing ring, but i suggest that those who believe that Tyson lacked heart should take a look at the Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield 1, and Lennox Lewis fights... All fights that Tyson lost in a space of over ten years, but fights in which Tyson showed incredible 'heart.'

Berbick may well have been the worst fighter ever to hold a Heavyweight belt, Smith was never that good, Thomas was a rehabbing druggie, and Tucker would have beaten Tyson if he hadn't broken his hand in the second round. Talk about Tyson's strengths all you want but strength of competition wasn't one of them. You're talking about what was probably the second worst period in Heavyweight history after only the present cesspool.

Poet

[Franko]

Berbick may well have been the worst fighter ever to hold a Heavyweight belt, Smith was never that good, Thomas was a rehabbing druggie, and Tucker would have beaten Tyson if he hadn't broken his hand in the second round. Talk about Tyson's strengths all you want but strength of competition wasn't one of them. You're talking about what was probably the second worst period in Heavyweight history after only the present cesspool.

Poet

I seriously doubt that Berbick is the worst fighter 'ever' to hold a heavyweight title! And i honestly don't think that Tucker would've beat Tyson if he hadn't broken his hand, but those are just my opinions.

[Poet682006]

I seriously doubt that Berbick is the worst fighter 'ever' to hold a heavyweight title! And i honestly don't think that Tucker would've beat Tyson if he hadn't broken his hand, but those are just my opinions.

Name me some worse! Primo Carnera doesn't count because his whole reign was phony balony.

Poet

[Franko]

Name me some worse! Primo Carnera doesn't count because his whole reign was phony balony.

Poet

Shame! I was going to throw his name into the mix...
I never claimed that Pinklon Thomas was anything special, but he'd have probably done well in today's heavyweight division...

Frank Bruno... Francois Botha... Leon Spinks... Bruce Seldon... Marvin Hart... and i personally think that James Braddock is over rated, but how you compare these guys to Trevor Berbick i don't know...

[Poet682006]

Shame! I was going to throw his name into the mix...
I never claimed that Pinklon Thomas was anything special, but he'd have probably done well in today's heavyweight division...

Frank Bruno... Francois Botha... Leon Spinks... Bruce Seldon... Marvin Hart... and i personally think that James Braddock is over rated, but how you compare these guys to Trevor Berbick i don't know...

First off, no one really knows how good Hart was so you really can't compare. Botha and Spinks were both close to Berbick in their patheticness but in my eyes were a tad bit better. Seldon's only problem was a glass jaw and Berbick was never known as a puncher: I see Seldon beating Berbick easily. Frank Bruno. Where on earth did you get the idea Bruno stunk? Bruno was a damn good fighter. His straight up style was all wrong for fighting Tyson but THAT'S not strike against him. Especially since he wobbled Tyson two or three times in their first fight. When he finally won a belt it was at the end of his career and he was pretty much done at that point so again that's not something you can hold against him.

Poet

[BKM-]

Holyfield was ****ed wherever he went that night. Bowe may not be the one punch powerhouse that 91 Tyson was, but in that one fight, he was a much more complete and superior offensive fighter. Holyfield did try to move and jab against Bowe in the middle rounds and ended up getting tagged by the longer man who was unusually sharp and busy. And as said before, Bowe wasn't the same fighter in the rematch; his laziness and poor training leading up to the fight is evident and well documented.

Whatever excuses will be made for Bowe, he looked good in the second fight. Again, I feel like you have been mislead, because Bowe was looking sloppy and worse than before because of Holyfield's strategy as well. Steward exploited Bowe's weaknesses and taught Holyfield the right strategy to beat him. Stay on the outside more, jab more, turn him around, do some slugging but not too much, and focus more on countering when you do so. What if he slugged as much as the first fight again? A victory for Bowe, that's what(look at how close the second fight was).
This is the type of wreckless slugging behavior i'm talking about. It would cost Evander fights.

Tyson couldn't afford it and he paid for it with two grueling fights that were much closer and costly than they had any right to be. So Tyson wouldn't try to and **** with Holyfield and get inside? That's the basis of your whole argument. I don't think his strategy would differ much. 96 Tyson's stamina looked fine, he took a beating up until the 11 th round and was still on his feet; obviously he was in great condition.

Tyson was never in serious danger of losing because he knew he could beat him, and had the the intense drive to do so(Something he lacked after prison). And lets see here, Tyson took head snapping left hooks and Smashes from a tall, very powerful 230-240 pound big man for nearly 20 rounds. Yet some people still think Holyfield would knock Tyson the **** out. Makes no sence.
And what I meant was: Just because Tyson fought one way against a tall powerful slugger, wouldn't mean he would be fighting the exact replica way against a skilled blown up Cruiserweight. But yes, once Evander gets cheeky and starts trading with Tyson, a couple of uppercuts to the body and head would make him think twice for a while until the fight goes on, when Evander keeps making the same mistake paying for it. And the kind of finisher a prime Tyson was, It wouldn't be looking good for Holyfield. In the meanwhile Holyfield would win most rounds.
And you are wrong that 96 Tyson had fine stamina. He looked pathetic. He was gassed early in the fight.

[Franko]

First off, no one really knows how good Hart was so you really can't compare. Botha and Spinks were both close to Berbick in their patheticness but in my eyes were a tad bit better. Seldon's only problem was a glass jaw and Berbick was never known as a puncher: I see Seldon beating Berbick easily. Frank Bruno. Where on earth did you get the idea Bruno stunk? Bruno was a damn good fighter. His straight up style was all wrong for fighting Tyson but THAT'S not strike against him. Especially since he wobbled Tyson two or three times in their first fight. When he finally won a belt it was at the end of his career and he was pretty much done at that point so again that's not something you can hold against him.

Poet

Like it or not, Bruno failed against quality opposition... He may have wobbled them etc, but he failed... I'm not saying he was the worst heavyweight champion in history, i was interested in how you would compare him to Trevor Berbick..
You're obviously a knowledgable guy, but my opinion differs to yours when considering the worst heavyweight champion ever.
I also forgot to throw John Ruiz into the mix.

[Mike Tyson77]

Berbick may well have been the worst fighter ever to hold a Heavyweight belt,t

Well Berbick only got KO'd twice in his career, once early and then by Tyson.

"Neon" Leon spinks was the worst.


At least Berbick went 15 rounds with Larry Holmes, "Neon" Leon just got knocked out.

[The Iron Man]

Thomas wasnt a bad fighter, Dundee even says how good a fighter he was and i think he knows something about good fighters! He done well Against Holyfield and Bowe beat witherspoon. Berbicks record of 50-11 is respectable only being knocked out twice once to tyson. He may not have been the best but there were worse. He was a decent fighter. Smith ill give it too you wasnt a great fighter, but he used a tactic against mike which ws just to survive he didnt wanna fight. Apart from him mike beat the other guys in tremendous fashion..so even if they are bad in ur opinion Tyson made then look even worse, so he cant be blamed for that. As for tucker winning, i have to disagree tyson easily won on the score card..: Julio Roldan (118-113), Phil Newman (119-111), Bill Graham (117-112)