Prime Tyson could have been the best ever??

[StarshipTrooper]

Dempsey beat Tunny in my book.

They always have every excuse when Tyson gets his ass kicked. Tyson NEVER loses, it's always the corners fault or he wasn't training hard or the moon was full or Don King's hair gel got in his eyes ect. Anything to avoid saying "Tyson got his ass kicked".

Poet

[Mike Tyson77]

They always have every excuse when Tyson gets his ass kicked. Tyson NEVER loses, it's always the corners fault or he wasn't training hard or the moon was full or Don King's hair gel got in his eyes ect. Anything to avoid saying "Tyson got his ass kicked".

Poet

Youre right, "Tyson" got his ass kicked. "Iron" Mike didnt.


You can't tell me that the 90's Tyson was the same as the 80's. Same person, just different fighters.

[StarshipTrooper]

Youre right, "Tyson" got his ass kicked. "Iron" Mike didnt.


You can't tell me that the 90's Tyson was the same as the 80's. Same person, just different fighters.

That would be "Leg-Iron" Mike. I don't buy into the hype of the 80s Tyson being some unstoppable force. I said he was vulnerable then and I say he was vulnerable now. The poor state of the Heavyweight division in the mid to late 80s made Tyson look better than he really was. As I'm fond of saying, the "prime" Tyson was an illusion: He never really existed anywhere but in the imaginations of his devoted followers. Even if you choose to forget the post-prison Tyson and end his career with the Ruddock fights he STILL doesn't crack my top 12 all-time Heavyweights.

Poet

[Brassangel]

Tyson was completely unprepared for a championship level contest. You could see after 3 rounds that he didn't want to be there. Douglas looked as good as any well-rounded heavyweight in the previous 15 years. He was still swinging fast, hard, and accurate in the 10th round. He did what a champion does to prepare for a fight, and that sort of zeal hadn't been seen in the heavyweights in some time. The circumstances were rare, but perfect for one of the greatest (albeit saddest) moments in boxing history.

Mike got whooped. He never would have allowed that to happen if everything was "as usual" with Rooney in his corner, 6 months of non-stop training, and a good night's sleep. No Buster Douglas in any shape would have taken Tyson prepared like he was when he was going for the belts. It would have been good, but Mike was simply a machine.

In his prime (which I feel as though we never truly got to see the best of him), he was as close to unbeatable as one may find in the heavyweight division, but he didn't get there...plain and simple. He had many 2nd chances to regain the stature as the game's best (ie: after Douglas, Holyfield 2, etc.), and he failed every time.

Despite this, he was still awesome. "State of the division" is relative; just because he made them look that bad, doesn't mean they were that bad.

[Mike Tyson77]

Tyson was completely unprepared for a championship level contest. You could see after 3 rounds that he didn't want to be there. Douglas looked as good as any well-rounded heavyweight in the previous 15 years. He was still swinging fast, hard, and accurate in the 10th round. He did what a champion does to prepare for a fight, and that sort of zeal hadn't been seen in the heavyweights in some time. The circumstances were rare, but perfect for one of the greatest (albeit saddest) moments in boxing history.

Mike got whooped. He never would have allowed that to happen if everything was "as usual" with Rooney in his corner, 6 months of non-stop training, and a good night's sleep. No Buster Douglas in any shape would have taken Tyson prepared like he was when he was going for the belts. It would have been good, but Mike was simply a machine.

Despite this, he was still awesome. "State of the division" is relative; just because he made them look that bad, doesn't mean they were that bad.

Guess that sums it up.

[-CANE-]

I'm sorry I don't buy it, It wouldn't have mattered who was in Tyson's corner that night. As I've said previously, If there was any boxer out there, that knew the game inside out, it was Tyson, he has probably watched more fights and studied them more than any other fighter in history, he should have known what to have done in all of the fights he was losing, but on every occasion he was put off his game plan, simply because they stood up to him, and any real Tyson fan should know this, that was always his biggest problem even way back in the early days in his amatuer fights, read the accounts of Teddy Atlas and co, even when Tyson was winning fights, if they kept getting up and standing up to him even with not much success, Tyson would come back to the corner at the end of a round and make up excuses that his hand broke or his wrist was damaged, simply because he never liked it when opponents stood up to him. Although he never quit in the ring, he quit mentally when someone stood up to him, and it completely put him off his game plan. Even in his so called prime he was a 6-7 round fighter and then lost concentration and neglected everything that made him such a terrific fighter offensively and defensevely. In every fight he lost, he realised from early on that they weren't gonna just lie down, and most important weren't intimidated by him, which in turn intimidated Tyson and therefore put him off his gameplan, he would look tentative and when he did attack it was from straight on, just throwing single shots and looking for the win. He had all the tools to beat Holyfield and Lewis except for the mental toughness, he never really knew how to fight back when everything was against him. Look at the Lewis fight, he started off against Lewis great, looking like old Tyson for 2 rounds. But Lewis stood up to him and fired back and this was what put Tyson off, he came out in the 3rd round looking like a different fighter, where did his skills go, they didn't just disappear and it wasn't stamina it was mental. I am a Tyson fan, but not a nuthugger and as a knowledgable fight fan, I could see all his weaknesses, I said the same thing way back in 87-88 and I was right all along. He believed the hype about himself, everyone said he was invincible and he thought everyone would just lie down and when they never he didn't know what to do, all he had to do would have been fight as he normally did, slipping punches, lateral movement and hard fast combos switching from head to body, he should have known that but when you lose your confidence and don't think your gonna win, you do ****** things. How many Tyson fans watched his defeats and were screaming at the TV come on mike what on earth are you doing, where is the lateral movement, the slipping of the punches, where are the combos, why are you just wading in straight on throwing single shots, be honest you all were but used excuses he didn't train or hes past his prime, when in fact all along he was missing that one important ingrediant in a great fighter, and that is a great mind, and the true heart of a champion to suck it up, and fire back with as much as you can, not just single shots.

[The Noose]

Tyson was completely unprepared for a championship level contest. You could see after 3 rounds that he didn't want to be there. Douglas looked as good as any well-rounded heavyweight in the previous 15 years. He was still swinging fast, hard, and accurate in the 10th round. He did what a champion does to prepare for a fight, and that sort of zeal hadn't been seen in the heavyweights in some time. The circumstances were rare, but perfect for one of the greatest (albeit saddest) moments in boxing history.

Mike got whooped. He never would have allowed that to happen if everything was "as usual" with Rooney in his corner, 6 months of non-stop training, and a good night's sleep. No Buster Douglas in any shape would have taken Tyson prepared like he was when he was going for the belts. It would have been good, but Mike was simply a machine.

In his prime (which I feel as though we never truly got to see the best of him), he was as close to unbeatable as one may find in the heavyweight division, but he didn't get there...plain and simple. He had many 2nd chances to regain the stature as the game's best (ie: after Douglas, Holyfield 2, etc.), and he failed every time.

Despite this, he was still awesome. "State of the division" is relative; just because he made them look that bad, doesn't mean they were that bad.

I like that line. And agree.

Tyson stood out and destroyed all comers because he was very ****ing good.
No one else came close to doing what he did. He was not the best of a bad bunch.
He was leagues better, and he had the potential to be great.
We will never know how great.

[Mike Tyson77]

I'm sorry I don't buy it, It wouldn't have mattered who was in Tyson's corner that night. As I've said previously, If there was any boxer out there, that knew the game inside out, it was Tyson, he has probably watched more fights and studied them more than any other fighter in history, he should have known what to have done in all of the fights he was losing, but on every occasion he was put off his game plan, simply because they stood up to him, and any real Tyson fan should know this, that was always his biggest problem even way back in the early days in his amatuer fights, read the accounts of Teddy Atlas and co, even when Tyson was winning fights, if they kept getting up and standing up to him even with not much success, Tyson would come back to the corner at the end of a round and make up excuses that his hand broke or his wrist was damaged, simply because he never liked it when opponents stood up to him. Although he never quit in the ring, he quit mentally when someone stood up to him, and it completely put him off his game plan. Even in his so called prime he was a 6-7 round fighter and then lost concentration and neglected everything that made him such a terrific fighter offensively and defensevely. In every fight he lost, he realised from early on that they weren't gonna just lie down, and most important weren't intimidated by him, which in turn intimidated Tyson and therefore put him off his gameplan, he would look tentative and when he did attack it was from straight on, just throwing single shots and looking for the win. He had all the tools to beat Holyfield and Lewis except for the mental toughness, he never really knew how to fight back when everything was against him. Look at the Lewis fight, he started off against Lewis great, looking like old Tyson for 2 rounds. But Lewis stood up to him and fired back and this was what put Tyson off, he came out in the 3rd round looking like a different fighter, where did his skills go, they didn't just disappear and it wasn't stamina it was mental. I am a Tyson fan, but not a nuthugger and as a knowledgable fight fan, I could see all his weaknesses, I said the same thing way back in 87-88 and I was right all along. He believed the hype about himself, everyone said he was invincible and he thought everyone would just lie down and when they never he didn't know what to do, all he had to do would have been fight as he normally did, slipping punches, lateral movement and hard fast combos switching from head to body, he should have known that but when you lose your confidence and don't think your gonna win, you do ****** things. How many Tyson fans watched his defeats and were screaming at the TV come on mike what on earth are you doing, where is the lateral movement, the slipping of the punches, where are the combos, why are you just wading in straight on throwing single shots, be honest you all were but used excuses he didn't train or hes past his prime, when in fact all along he was missing that one important ingrediant in a great fighter, and that is a great mind, and the true heart of a champion to suck it up, and fire back with as much as you can, not just single shots.

Ill never belive that. I watched both Ruddock fights. Ruddock was hitting Tyson after the bell, hittin him back and everything. In the 6th round of the first fight Ruddock was landing all kinds of shots, Ruddock wasnt scared. Tyson put his glove up to his chin and said "hit me again!", and Ruddock did! Tyson came right back with a combonation. Then pounded Ruddock the next round. They both came to fight. Tyson learned from the Douglas fight. Tyson had the heart of a lion. He was a great UNDISPUTED CHAMPION.

[StarshipTrooper]

That doesn't wash. That crop of Heavyweights were bad before Tyson broke on the scene to make them look worse. I've been watching boxing for more than thirty years and they are EASILY the worst era in Heavyweight history. Trevor Berbick holding a championship belt? Tony Tubbs doing the same? Please, it's enough to gag a maggot. One thing I credit Tyson for is cleaning up that mess. He may not make my ATG list but he DID do yeoman's work in cleaning out a bad bad division.

Poet

[Mike Tyson77]

That doesn't wash. That crop of Heavyweights were bad before Tyson broke on the scene to make them look worse. I've been watching boxing for more than thirty years and they are EASILY the worst era in Heavyweight history. Trevor Berbick holding a championship belt? Toney Tubbs doing the same? Please, it's enough to gag a maggot. One thing I credit Tyson for is cleaning up that mess. He may not make my ATG list but he DID do yeoman's work in cleaning out a bad bad division.

Poet

I guess you think the 30's and 40's where better?