Prime Tyson could have been the best ever??

[The Iron Man]

Im british man and am not biased at all against Lewis. His in mt ATG list, but all of his knock outs are single punches, his chin was alrite but not comparable to ali and holmes who got up after massive shots, remember Ali wasnt knocked out against cooper he got up. i cant remember many times seeing lewis getting up from a knock down. Tyson took 10 rounds of beatings agsint douglas and 8 against lewis, they both said other the fights how he took their best shots. Tyson took Ruddocks and Brunos best shots who were both great punchers, thats y his chin is not questioned.

[The Iron Man]

All of those fights you named tyson won so obviously there was no need to adabt! He fought who was avaliable, he beat Spinks and Holmes both good and great fighters, im not sayin he was better than Ali. but foreman there is a case, george didnt adapt either and got embarassed by Ali, he werent smart enough to even damage the body

[-CANE-]

Iron - Sorry didn't see you was from uk. Lewis took shots off Tyson,Tua,Mercer,Holyfield,Ruddock,Briggs and everyone else. Hell he even took great shots from McCall and Rahman. The McCall punch he was coming onto it which doubles it's power anyway, and he got up and it was stopped. He took great shots off Rahman which he saw and braced himself for, the one that got through was because he was being lazy and ****y and didn't see it, and if you can't see it coming, you can't brace yourself for it. Lewis was better than Tyson and would have beaten him prime or no prime. Tyson took 5 beatings in his career, Lewis took none, even well past his prime, no-one ever gave Lewis a beating. That should tell you something. Tyson was great, but Lewis was greater.

[StackMo]

Absolutely correct. Stole my thunder as not much was left to be said.

[Mike Tyson77]

Iron - Sorry didn't see you was from uk. Lewis took shots off Tyson,Tua,Mercer,Holyfield,Ruddock,Briggs and everyone else. Hell he even took great shots from McCall and Rahman. The McCall punch he was coming onto it which doubles it's power anyway, and he got up and it was stopped. He took great shots off Rahman which he saw and braced himself for, the one that got through was because he was being lazy and ****y and didn't see it, and if you can't see it coming, you can't brace yourself for it. Lewis was better than Tyson and would have beaten him prime or no prime. Tyson took 5 beatings in his career, Lewis took none, even well past his prime, no-one ever gave Lewis a beating. That should tell you something. Tyson was great, but Lewis was greater.

Id pick a 22 yr old Tyson over any version of Lewis.

[The Noose]

Iron Man - Lewis never had a suspect chin, he just got too ****y and lazy. I suggest you checkout youtube and look for Lewis had a great chin and see how many punches he took full on from anyone worth mentioning and then come back and tell me the same thing. Anyone can be kod especially at hw, at least Lewis ko defeats were to big hitters, Tyson got sparked by Douglas who couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag. Douglas never not once knocked out any top fighters, except for Iron Mike, but does anyone say he had a suspect chin, no. Ali got dropped by Cooper, and although he was a big puncher, he never weighed nearly as much as McCall and Rahman and I doubt hit as hard as either of them, yet Ali's jaw was never questioned. Just because he was british and you like to call our hw horizontal he had a suspect chin, I don't agree. In the McCall fight he was up at 6 and the ref stopped it, the only time a hw champ hasn't been allowed to continue after getting up, just because America wanted the title back. And the Rahman fight well Lewis got lazy and didn't see it coming, and it was one hell of a punch, capable of flooring Ali and Tyson and just about any other hw

U believe the ref didnt allow Lewis to continue against McCall because he was british?
Im british and i believe Lewis shouldnt of been allowed to continue. As he was protesting his legs were giving way. I dont believe the ref was biased. There is no real evidence of that.

Iron - Sorry didn't see you was from uk. Lewis took shots off Tyson,Tua,Mercer,Holyfield,Ruddock,Briggs and everyone else. Hell he even took great shots from McCall and Rahman. The McCall punch he was coming onto it which doubles it's power anyway, and he got up and it was stopped. He took great shots off Rahman which he saw and braced himself for, the one that got through was because he was being lazy and ****y and didn't see it, and if you can't see it coming, you can't brace yourself for it. Lewis was better than Tyson and would have beaten him prime or no prime. Tyson took 5 beatings in his career, Lewis took none, even well past his prime, no-one ever gave Lewis a beating. That should tell you something. Tyson was great, but Lewis was greater.

The reason Tyson took 5 beatings is because he could take a punch. Lewis on the other hand got sparked out twice with single shots. Every fighter gets caught with bombs they dont see coming, but most either take it, get hurt but recover, go down for a count.Lewis got stopped.
Even against Henry Akinwade he was caught and touched down but it wasnt called a knock down.
He had a decent chin, but not comparable to Tyson or Ali.

Tyson was shot wen he fought Lewis, yet it still took Lewis 8 rounds to finish him. Tyson at his best got hit very little. Lewis would have real trouble landing clean, and if he did Tyson would be able to take it.
Lewis on the other hand could not take a Tyson combination. IMO.

[-CANE-]

Bobby Pazuzu - You say the reason took 5 beatings was because he could take a punch, I never said he couldn't. But he also took the beatings because he wasn't as good as what a lot of people think. He took the beatings because they were better than him. Tyson fans always make excuses and say he wasn't in his prime, or he never trained properly. Also I said Lewis had a very good chin, but I never said it was comparible to Tyson's or Ali's. I believe they had better chins than Lewis, but Lewis's was very good and just because he suffered two ko losses everyone suspects he had a glass jaw, and a prime Tyson would have kod him, that is utter bull****.
I also said that no -one ever questioned Tyson's chin or Ali's, what I meant by this, was not saying Lewis's was comparible or better becuase it wasn't, but that Douglas couldn't punch for **** and still stopped Tyson, but no one questions his jaw. Had the McCall ko happened on Tyson and not Lewis, all Tyson fan's would have said 'lucky punch' and what a great punch it was and he was walking on to it, which doubles the power. And had Lewis been beaten up badly by douglas and then kod, they all would have said, ha got outboxed and beaten up by a nobody, and gets knocked out by someone that can't punch. You say Tyson was shot when he fought Lewis, well Lewis was well past it as well, and way way past it when he fought Klitchko, but he always found a way to win and never got beaten up, he also had 5 times as much heart at Tyson and 5 times much more confidence. Even Tyson in his prime, as that is the only argument all Tyson fan's use, did have the power to knock Lewis out, and while a possibility, I don't think it would have happened. Lewis wouldn't have got lazy against a prime Tyson as he did in his losses when he thought he could switch off. The better the opponent the better Lewis fought. He would have run for 6 rounds, ****ing Tyson with the jab and keeping him at bay, and stopping him in his tracks with devastating uppercuts, as Tyson tried to bull his way in. Tyson would have thrown combos in the early rounds, but not all would have got through, and fallen on Lewis arms, Lewis would have gave back just as much, which would have deterred Tyson. Who we all know never won a fight against a world class fighter that stood up to him, prime or no prime. Lewis would have kod Tyson in rounds 11-12 or won a unanimous decision, busting him up badly.

[The Noose]

Im not interested in what Tyson nuthuggers would or wouldnt say. I know there are alot of them, and theyre ****in annoying as hell.
I consider myself Tyson fan, and wouldnt of just made excuses for him if he got KO'd the way Lewis did.
Talking about excuses....Lewis was lazy? He walked onto the punch which doubled the power? That is always used as an excuse by Lewis fans. Eventhough they are both true, i dont know of any other heavyweight champ to be KO'd twice with 1 punch against such opposition. Laziness is a poor excuse for a champion.
Lewis didnt have a glass jaw. Both his KO losses were huge shots. But his chin was questionale at times.
Douglas was a big heavyweight that hit Tyson with power shots for 10 rounds.
Tyson and Lewis had very different styles. Tyson without his combinations, movement and hunger was just a big puncher. There is a huge difference between him at his best and him after prison.
Lewis was always a boxer first, reling on his great jab and setting opponents up for righthands, he never hd a 3 year lay off, and his style meant he could continue to be successful as he got older. He may of lost his speed slightly, but always had his technique, somthing Tyson lost in 1989!

I have huge respect for Lewis. He grew wiser as he aged, the complete opposite to Tyson who only grew worse.
Il always believe Tyson would KO Lewis for these reasosn; Tyson in his prime didnt have trouble slipping boxers jabs,he would lip and counter with great speed and timing. Lewis wasnt able to hit Tyson cleanly with his uppercut eventhough Tyson was shot, i dont see how he would do it against a young fast Tyson.
Tyson might take some big shots, but Lewis, i dont think, could take too many of Tysons shots within the first 6 rounds.
Its either Tyson early or Lewis late. But Tyson would alwys be dangerous.

[Poet682006]

I think it's a mistake to say Douglas couldn't punch. He DID score a one punch KO over Mike White; someone Michael Moorer, who defininately COULD punch, had trouble getting out of there.

I've said it before, but boxing fans seem to hang at the extremes: Either a fighter has one-punch KO power or he can't punch at all; there is no inbetween. Obviously there are many levels of power between those two extremes but it never seems to be recognised in these sort of discussions.

Poet

[-CANE-]

Bobby - Nice to hear from a Tyson fan that isn't a nut hugger. Your'e right about Lewis being lazy, especially against inferior oppostion, he also liked to fight at his own pace and control the tempo. But he showed in both rematches that they were flukes. Tyson although past it, never avenged defeat against Holyfield a fight he should have won. Tyson was intimidated against Holyfield because he knew Holyfield wasn't intimidated by him. You see he lacked mental confidence and never dug deep when he had to, which is the true mark of a champion, something Lennox did on numerous occasions, surely an educated boxing fan must agree with me on this. I also think your correct in the assesment of a fight between the 2 had they met earlier when Tyson was in his prime. Either Tyson kos him by 6 or Lennox beats him on points or stops him in the last 2 rounds. Personally I think the latter, but even if Tyson had knocked him out, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have intimidated Lennox and he would have done a number on Tyson in the rematch. I personally think no one ever saw a real prime Lennox, because in his physical prime, when he had plenty of speed and power against Ruddock he was very amaturish and had his feet to wide apart, but after being with steward for a few years was a much better boxer technically, but was a lot bigger and slower, too big for my liking. Had steward had him from turning pro, and he met Tyson at his physical peak I think we would have seen Lennox better than at any time in his career, that would have been a prime Lennox and that Lennox would have beaten Tyson, or had an even better chance of not getting knocked out by him.