could tyson have beat ali if tyson fought like he fought mitch green?

[Franko]

i dont care about the recovery part. he was obviously still dazed. but compared to when frazier knocked him down he got up like it wasnt ****. so all im saying is he covered it up well

How do you determine how strong or weak a fighters chin is if you don't care about the recovery part? I'd have thought that the recovery process was relevant! e.g. If a fighter is knocked down and struggles to recover, then he is in trouble, right? And if this happens on a fairly regular basis would you question whether or not the fighter had a weak chin?
The fact that Ali was never knocked out, at any stage of his career, proved that he had a good chin. Prior to his exile he fought hard punchers, and he did so after his exile. None of them knocked him out. The difference between the knock-downs against Cooper and Frazier is that Cooper caught Ali early with a great punch. True he was dazed, but Ali recovered. Frazier caught Ali with a great punch late in the fight when Ali was backing up, and both fighters were tired. Ali recovered. You can't base your opinion on Ali's chin being weaker prior to his exile on one fight, and so far i have read no examples of others.
I don't want to discredit you in any way, and i'm sure you know a great deal about boxing, but i can't agree with you on this subject. Ali has always had the same 'chin!' The only thing that changed after his exile was his style.

[catskills23]

I am saying that because of Tyson's foot positioning that was always offensive and never defensive, Tyson did not have the feet to be fleet-footed.

but if tyson used a different style would he of had the footspeed to be fleet footed?.

[Hydro]

but if tyson used a different style would he of had the footspeed to be fleet footed?.

hahaha...What about the other threads you asked this question on?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2891

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2526

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31654

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4724

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50607

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3292

You need some new material.

[Mr. Ryan]

but if tyson used a different style would he of had the footspeed to be fleet footed?.

It's totally irrelevant because he didn't know any other style than the one he did. It's not like he had the versatility to employ new tactics when Ali was giving it to him. If he could, then he'd be a different fighter. In fact, he'd be a better fighter.

[Mr. Ryan]

no tyson wouldnt quit at the bell(not literally of course). u guys tend to remember the 96' and on tyson. u guys need to quit that ****. and he showed fast foot speed even when he wasnt on defense.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de6U7cjUwgw he pivoted and moved out the way alot to find more angles.of course only 1 of many fights he does this in.

and tyson was vulnerable to a jab that was timed when he himself wasnt jabbinguntil rooney told him to(tyson can be slow at times mentally)

and if ali was talking **** at the press conference. ok that would suck. but tyrell biggs was **** talking to him back to the amatuer days when tyson didnt make the team for the olympics.even tyson said that was his favorite fight. but what did he do? not rush and get frustrated,he took his time. even he said he could have koed him in the 3rd but he wanted him to remember the night forever.would ali have some kind of mental game on tyson? yeah he would.and maybe the first few rounds tyson might try to knock his head off but then i think he would settle down.

and like i said for a fight i dont know who would win it would be a toss up. even butterfly wasnt as biased with his claim that ali would beat tyson.he's king of like it could happen and it couldnt. but i think your set in your ways in your answer and by that its hard to have a conversation on this matter cause what ever i say u will side with ali.

Let me tell you something that a wise man once told me. People who are born round don't die square. You don't change your spots. Sure, we can only see externally what Tyson wanted us to see in the 80s, but from what the people closest to him said, he always had a dog in his heart. He was always lacking something that optimists didn't care to expound on because it can't be measured statistically. That's why I always say, it didn't matter that Tyson went to jail and fought Holyfield later in his career. Holyfield would've whipped Tyson back in 1991 also.

Biggs was nothing compared to Ali, nothing at all. Biggs also had what, 15 fights when they fought? Comparing the mental game of Muhammad Ali and Tyrell Biggs is like comparing Larry Donald's right hand to Sonny Liston. It isn't happening.

I'm just being real. I'm a proponent of the mental aspect of boxing. Boxing is a lot more to do with mental than physical, and I don't think Tyson would have it to go deep with a guy like Muhammad Ali. Sure, there would always be the possibility that Tyson could get in a left hook, which was the only punch that Ali seemed vulnerable. And if he jabbed to Ali's chest, he'd have some marked success. But in all actuality, what else would Tyson do? Tyson would be reaching against a bigger man who was good at maintaining his defense and keeping his distance well. Tyson would be reaching all night and when Tyson got inside, nobody was better at tying their man up that Ali.

People look at Clay-Liston I and say "Oh, Liston is slow, he ain't **** but a hoe and a trick." Let me tell you something, Liston was quick, but against a guy like Ali, he had no choice but to slow it down and try to figure out the puzzle in front of him. Tyson would be slowed by the jabs, the feints, and Ali would consistently get off first. I'm telling you, just cuz Tyson's a scary dude, Tyson's from Brooklyn, he's back cuz he's from the streets, none of that matters when you're in the ring with a guy who has your number mentally. Tyson wasn't smart enough or disciplined enough to get the better of a guy like Muhammad Ali.

[catskills23]

It's totally irrelevant because he didn't know any other style than the one he did. It's not like he had the versatility to employ new tactics when Ali was giving it to him. If he could, then he'd be a different fighter. In fact, he'd be a better fighter.

relevant or not did tyson have the footspeed to be fleetfooted, to dance like ali?.

[PATO 1]

no tyson couldnt have because he werent good enough

[Hydro]

It's totally irrelevant because he didn't know any other style than the one he did. It's not like he had the versatility to employ new tactics when Ali was giving it to him. If he could, then he'd be a different fighter. In fact, he'd be a better fighter.

Don't answer this guy with a serious answer.

He asks the same questions over and over on different boards, for years.

I guess it's his hobby or obsession or something.

Look above at how many threads he's already started here on that subject.

[SABBATH]

i'm looking at the frazier vs.ali fight and when frazier goes in he gets hit alot cause his hands were down,but he still got to ali.

You are underrating Frazier's defence and Ali's accuracy.

Boxing historian Monte Cox has studied slip and duck rates of champion calibre fighters including this fight counted the slip and duck rates for Frazier in this fight. Joe made Ali miss an average of 14-17 punches a round. This is the highest slip and duck rate Cox has encountered in studying fighters of this level. By contrast a prime Roberto Duran (revered for his defensive abilities) averaged about 12 a round in his peak performance at lightweight against Esteban Dejesus in their third fight.

Remember who Frazier was making miss, a near prime Ali, a fighter known at the time for his excellent accuracy (especially the jab) who in this fight looked damn impressive in the first 5 rounds. Tyson never faced a guy who let his hands go like Ali did in Frazier I, and Ali would have caught the Tyson who fought Mitch Green enough times to have an effect.

[butterfly1964]

You are underrating Frazier's defence and Ali's accuracy.

Boxing historian Monte Cox has studied slip and duck rates of champion calibre fighters including this fight counted the slip and duck rates for Frazier in this fight. Joe made Ali miss an average of 14-17 punches a round. This is the highest slip and duck rate Cox has encountered in studying fighters of this level. By contrast a prime Roberto Duran (revered for his defensive abilities) averaged about 12 a round in his peak performance at lightweight against Esteban Dejesus in their third fight.

Remember who Frazier was making miss, a near prime Ali, a fighter known at the time for his excellent accuracy (especially the jab) who in this fight looked damn impressive in the first 5 rounds.

That only worked against stand-up boxers like Ali. But it didn't work against Foreman, because Foreman dug his shots up an they were made for Frazier's ducking style. Foreman threw half hook half uppercut punches. That really did a number on Frazier.