I look at Keith Thurman as one of the biggest modern disappointments in boxing, although some may disagree.
This dude literally had a major PPV/legacy fight lined up with Errol Spence, someone he could beat, yet he was terrified and wanted no parts of it
Yes, Thurman had injuries/surgeries after the Garcia fight, but it was also clear that even if he didn't have those surgeries/injuries that he didn't want the Spence fight.
For all the talk he did, he did not dare to be great.
the version of trinidad that beat vargas, was the fastest, sharpest, and possibly the best version of trinidad i had ever seen.
vargas had success against trinidad with counter punching and throwing combinations at right moments, but im not sure if the 154 version of canelo had those same tools.
Mosley wouldn't even be top 5 at 135, 140, and 147
what do you mean he wouldn't?
he WAS top 5.
maybe you don't remember or didn't follow boxing back then, but he was the man at lightweight before jumping up to welterweight for the Delahoya fight.
then he became the man at welterweight as well.
he was considered pound for pound one of the best champions at the time along with Trinidad and Roy Jones.
Who did Vernon beat?
Prime Mosley, who was the only person at that point to convincingly beat prime Delahoya (most felt Trinidad should have lose to Delahoya, and the Whitaker and Quartey bouts could have gone either way)
Prime Mosely was also physically stronger than the version that almost killed Margarito and almost KO Floyd
And lmao @ the thought of Danny Garcia who never KO’d a prime welterweight, knocking out prime Mayorga who took Forrests best shots and laughed, one of the few who dropped and hurt Mosley.
Prime welterweight Mayorga had a great chin and no stamina issues, and could have even possibly beaten prime welterweight Delahoya, Trinidad, and Mosley.
That loss to Spinks was also debatable if I remember correctly.
People have forgotten that the hungry version of Mayorga was extremely dangerous.
I think he beats most or all the welters today, steamrolling anyone who trades with him or making the rest run for 12 rounds
I don't think prime Mayorga beats prime DLH & Trinidad. Their straighter & quicker punches would always trouble Mayorga.
Forrest also had the straighter and quicker shots, and Mayorga was able to lure him into a brawl and stop him.
I agree that Trinidad and Delahoya would probably fair better than Forrest, but not guarantee they would beat a prime Mayorga.
The Maidana that May fought would beat these guys Pac fought -
Rios, Algieri, Lucas, Broner (haha), Clottey, Hatton, DLH, Mosley
Clottey who was a big and skilled welterweight, would beat the crap out of Maidana
now that i think about it, would be a great fight.
like Brook, Forrest had a good jab and right hand 1-2 combo.
but Forrest was also a good inside fighter, better than brook on the inside anyway.
hard to say who would win though.
floyd was also pushing the "thurman is ducking spence" angle, so have to put some of the blame on him too.
i too felt it was a bit unfair to thurman to say he was ducking spence at the time, i actually favored thurman slightly back then if they fought.
It’s false because you’re saying Floyd didn’t want it which is patently false. He did want it. And his people wanted the fight.
You’re putting the blame on Floyd when there were two parties involved.
He did fight the highest available, he wanted Kosta Tsyzu badly, when that fell out, the next highest ranked guy was Gatti.
That’s what happened.
the blame wasn't on tszyu either, he was 36 yrs. old, barely active, and was looking for a well-deserved career cash out fight, and floyd wasn't gonna provide that.
i don't remember tszyu vs floyd ever close to being made, it was just both tszyu and floyd saying they both wanted the fight but nothing came out of it.
mayweather was part of the tszyu sweepstakes i believe, so were alot of other names.
floyd was with hbo at the time, so realistically the only names tszyu could have fought were hatton, vivian harris and corrales since they could fight on shotime.
floyd chose to move to 147 after the gatti fight, wbo champ cotto and ibf champ hatton didn't really call him out at the time
in fact the only other 140 champ that called him out was vivian harris who had the wba belt, and this fight possibly could have happened if harris didn't lose to carlos maussa
as for 135, floyd priced himself out of a possible unification with paul spadafora who was the ibf lightweight champion.
it's not just about neutralizing crawfords jab, spence has to try to neutralize crawfords right hand altogether as much as possible
crawford has downplayed his right hand a bit and said that his left is equally as dangerous, this is not true.
crawfords power hand is his right hand, he is a converted orthodox (if that makes sense).
spence has to keep his left hand up to block crawfords right hook, and not bend or lean forward too much to avoid crawfords right uppercut.
That was a great win tho..... Especially how he won.
I wish Crawford fought that version of Brook.....
i wish brook never fought ggg.
prime brook was very capable of cleaning out 147.
It’s not in Garcia’s nature to be active in the ring. He doesnt throw enough punches and no trainer can change that. You cant teach old dogs new tricks.
yes, garcia's nature is a counter puncher and he will always revert to that when facing adversity, even if he was trained to come forward and set up his shots.
it's most likely too late to change this now.
That's not really a thing. It's just a weird catchphrase fanboys use.
What exactly did your eyes test? Can you even say?
That is a blatant lie.
so looking at something and being able to tell what it is or what it isn't, is "not really a thing", ok.
and no it is not a blatant lie, neither thurman nor garcia apparently wanted it with brook at that time.
So, now you are saying you can just look at fighters and know they are good?? Even when they are just a cherry pickers like Spence?
Could you tell me next weeks lottery numbers too?
now you're just $h1tposting lmao
Based on what?
His top level wins over Frankie Gavin and Mathew Hatton?
based on eye-test, and the fact most of the other champs ducked him.
WBA champ thurman actually told Johnny Nelson that brook was the best welterweight around at that time.
and WBC champ garcia didn't want to fight him either.
only WBO champ jessie vargas was willing to fight and that fight was cose to being made, but there was no money in it.
brooks biggest problem was himself, he ballooned in weight in between fights and didn't further develop his inside fighting ability which was average or decent at best.
but even with these flaws he still could have beaten thurman, garcia, spence, and crawford had he avoided ggg.
brook clearly has the best jab in the division, even broken, past prime, no punch resistance version of brook swell up crawfords eye easily.
floyd didn't really need to unify at the time as he became recognized as the top guy by beating judah and baldomir.
judah was actually the last unifed undisputed lineal champ at the time by beating spinks who had the wbc/wba/ibf belts.(wbo didn't really count at the time)
judah lost the wbc belt to baldomir and floyd moved up to beat both judah and baldomir back to back, which essentially made mayweather the undisputed champ of the division even if he didn't have all the belts.
i don't think he is damaged goods, he actually threw a decent amount of punches imo.
he was clearly befuddled by spences jab and upper body movement and couldn't find the target for his preferred punches.
his problem is he constantly tries to wait for perfect moments for single left hooks and straight rights or overhand rights.
he would have been more successful had he tried uppercuts, but danny doesn't throw that punch very often, he landed a good one on spence and shoulda threw it more when spence leaned foward.
Pernell who was obviously a defensive wizard, doesn't get enough credit for how dynamic he was.
He was even more dynamic than Floyd Mayweather, another defensive genius who was more of a full welterweight, yet i have a hard time picturing Floyd do some of the things Whitaker did.
i.e Whitaker scored a KnockDown on Delahoya, and scored a possibly needed stoppage on Hurtado in a fight he might have been losing. These are things Floyd just wouldn't do or can't do if in a similar situation.
Surprisingly, Pernell was bullying Chavez at times. Chavez actually seemed to wince at some of the body shots Pernell landed on him.
Pernell was already showing signs of getting old a year before the Delahoya fight when he fought Wilfredo Rivera the first time.
Bob just says anything. As much as he dislikes Trump he's like him in the I'll say fooking anything way.
I don't buy that Keef asked for $10M. Any word on how much Keef says he wanted or how much he was offered?
And no fooking way Showtime Shawn takes $1M for Bud nor should he. Purse bid that sh^t. Hell a third party like DAZN might swoop in on that if PBC & Bob are in a lowball war.
i think keith recently said in some interview he told them to send a offer or contract and he would be willing to negotiate it.
so im guessing nothing was sent to keith