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This is easy. It has to be the pressure. Actually Tszyu was breathing hard very early in the fight. The fast pace and the constant of Hatton laying his body on Tszyu and out muscling him is what wore him down. All of those other things are factors but this is the main one Do you think that in USA (or with an american referee) things like laying his body aren't allowed?

I don't understand why people are so impressed with young undefeated fighters. It was the same with Vargas against Trinidad, people gave Vargas a chance because was undefeated, but young undefeated fighters didn't face much quality opposition, and didn't have much fights at all. Of course Trinidad beat Vargas with his superior experience. People that are on boxing like the guy on that TV should be better predicting (for example, more boxers picked Winky against Trinidad, but most boxing fans picked Trinidad).

There is not 1 ounce of fat on Trinidad in that picture. I see a lot on the waist, I have less then that fat and I have about 6 lbs to burn.

big geoge comes all time and marciano p4p hardest puncher. ernie should ayleast be lited as number 2 I agree, for 185 pounds Rocky is the strongest p4p. And it seems that Foreman is one of the first two in power.

Hi, I don't live in the USA, and don't have the fight on TV, can you tell me when you see tito if he is fatter than the photograph on this page, and how is Winky compared with the photograph? http://sports.yahoo.com/box/photo?slug=r1273773175&prov=reuters

Thanks for the advise Martin. Rick gave me access to the downloads/links section. Only problem is, can someone either show me a link to it, or help me find it so that I can upload some fights. Thanks I downloaded 43%, then suddelny stopped and say error, then I tried to continue and says done, but I cant open it. Do you have the fight at another link?

Winky went up in weight for this fight. Winky was the underdog for most (not for me). People should separate fanatism with reality, one thing is that you like to see Tito, other thing is say he win against everybody (he lost to three boxers, officially to two). he also fougth agains past prime Pernell and Camacho. Tito says he may go to suppermiddleweight or even lightheavyweight. He's a dreamer, in this picture on the URL you see that he has some fat at the waist, not like Winky. Imagine him at 168, with power punchers like Lacy, all that fat won't help. He should stay at 154 or below. In the picture, you also see he is insecure: he is looking with that face at Winky, while Winky doesn't need all these things, just box. http://sports.yahoo.com/box/photo?slug=r1273773175&prov=reuters Only Winky advantages are that he began at 150lbs, Tito at 140lbs, and theat Tito left the ring for 29 months.

Although this is a step in the right direction, more needs to be done. The whole issue can easily be solved by making the fighter fight without his mouthpiece if he decideds to spit it out. I prefer your options too, ans sometimes it happens, when the referee doesn't see the mouthpiece fly.

How are they? are visible fatter than on the weighting?

Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis sayd that the strongest puncher ever is George Foreman, and both lived enough to see Ernie. That's why I put some modern heavyweights, since we know who may be the strongest one before 1980. But you may disagree.

If I had more options I would have put Ernie Shavers, Evander Holyfield, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, and some mentioned the two ucranian brothers. Any others?

He has been knocked down twice against the same guy. That fight is in the download section. He was also knocked out of the ring by Robert Allen. Which of their fights? In the second and third, Allen was down, while in the first, BHop was outside the ring by the referee in one clinch, maybe is that was you are talking about? See http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001414

http://www.boxrec.com/record001414.html it could say if a boxer was down or not, I looked and says with Segundo Mercado.

ya that's what i was talking about. the fight where he got knocked down twice was earlier in his career. I don't know who it was with though. Earlier in his career was in a draw with Segundo Mercado. Next fight was the rematch and BHop won by TKO.

I tisn't high, and in the official weighting he even is below the limit, for example 157. See http://www.boxrec.com/record001414.html

I have a thread about punching power and it's relation with bone mass. Although you went to know not just about power but about advantages in general. Reach is another advantage. If they are tall and not fat it's another advantage. These two reasons are why I picked Wlad to win over Eliseo. Nicolay Valuev it's 333 lbs and 7 feet, do any of you saw how good is he? http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=019904

Thanks Super_Lightweight and mic573. Do you think that in-fighting and uppercuts would help?

Cotto did NOT demolish Corley, I had Corley ahead and it was a premature rigged stoppage. Smacking around former 130-135 pounders do not make you the best. I agree, Cotto wasn't good at that fight, consider Ivan Calderon from Puert Rico is undefeated and better technically, but a bit boring, since he has few ko.

Floyd shouldn't move up to 154 unless he goes after somebody who is harmless. Guys like Ouma and Simms would eat him up...especially Ouma. I agree, 154lbs. guys are way bigger, even Vernon Forrest at 147lbs. was very big.

At the night of the fight, for the Gatti fight he weighed in at 147lbs. and he was as fast as ever..and he still looked good carrying the weight. So I think he'll do just fine at 147lbs. Not only that, there are guys shorter than him at that weight class. How he does past 147lbs. is something I don't know. Thanks for your reply. I understand that. But guys at 147 enter the ring at more than 147, for example at 154 so it's the same: there is still one weight class difference between him now and him at the future if he goes to 147 weight class, how he will do at one weight class more?

Allright, can we stop with the Hatton vs Tszyu threads? The fight was a fucking month ago. We moved on. If you want to stop go on and read other threads, no problem. I preferred to do the tread now because after the fight there were so many threads that was impossible to read all. Also, immediately after the fight feelings are different than weeks after.

Winky went up in weight for this fight. Winky was the underdog for most (not for me). People should separate fanatism with reality, one thing is that you like to see Tito, other thing is say he win against everybody (he lost to three boxers, officially to two). Tito says he may go to suppermiddleweight or even lightheavyweight. He's a dreamer, in this picture on the URL you see that he has some fat at the waist, not like Winky. Imagine him at 168, with power punchers like Lacy, all that fat won't help. In the picture, you also see he is insecure: he is looking with that face at Winky, while Winky doesn't need all these things, just box. http://sports.yahoo.com/box/photo?slug=r1273773175&prov=reuters

Height dont matta. Pac, Tyson, Tua and Tszyu are short and they have big punch. Doo, I think you watched Corrales Castillo too much! Thanks, although Tyson is included in my list if you see the middle of the post. Pacman may be strong but less strong than Morales, this is one example I put. Don't know about Tszyu, but he may be wider than others or some other reasons.

The power in a punch is determined by how fast the fist is going and how much weight is behind it. The length of the arms has nothing to do with it. Thanks, but if tall boxers throw a punch from longer distance, doesn't it get faster? (maintaining all other variables the same, of course).

I tend to agree that Foreman probably did hit harder than Marciano, and Tyson probably hit harder too, but I dont know its still the PSI record and the man was short and only a 187 pounds. That is why Marciano was such a machine he had endless stamina due in large part to weighing only 187 pounds but he could hit almost as hard as Foreman if he really committed himself to a punch. What I know about marciano is that he trained more than others, maybe about double. Also, he had less fat than other heavyweights, so most of the 187 lbs are muscles and bones. These are advantages, that made him hit harder than others at his time, and without doubt hardest hitter at his weight or lower, but higher weights it depends. But I do no think he compares with the others I mention, also I read Frank Bruno hits more than 1000 PSI but don't know about others, or how realiable is.

it's speed times the mass, guys like tua, ibeabuchi, lewis, tyson, guys who weigh over 220, and have good hand speed are going to be devastating punchers, tyson an tua generated most of their power from their legs,lennox lewis punced down and used most of his body weight on his punches, it's just different types of power but equally as devastating of course Thanks for the answer, if I understood what you mean with Lewis, it can be used in some punches, but not in an uppercut, that he throwed strong with the right hand. Tyson and Tua go to the front with the body for some shots. Foreman didn't do it especially at more than 40 years, it still impresses me the victory over Moorer at near 46 with that punch without much body movement.

4 years isnt gonna affect punching power that much Its mostly agility, look at foreman, he lost everything but his power at 45.. Boxers don't loose because of punch at 38, they loose fights at about 38 beacuse they have less reflexes, less movility, etc, this is the least important factor justifying a loose at 38, since power is the least thing they loose. I didn't mean he lost his power at 38. Also there are always gonna be exceptions to the rule, I did mention Hearns. I didnt say that as a golden rule, its a general thing. Yes, there are exceptions, that means that some other variables exist, I just try to know if bone density is one important. Besides, Castillo had more power than Corrales, he dropped him twice. Like I said its not a golden rule. Weight = more power too but I seen tons who weigh less and are stronger punchers. Corrales has more power, but a weak chin. That was commented before the fight: power of Corrales against durable chin of Castillo.

Some of the biggest punchers ever were below 6 feet tall and Marciano was below 6ft in height and only weighed like 187 pounds but has the highest recorded hit on record recorded PSI. (pounds of pressure per square inch) over 1000 I read about his power, but also we know that is very difficult to imagine him hitting harder than George Foreman and many others. How reliable is that PSI test, and did they do it to all the other heavyweight punchers? Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey said that the biggest heavyweight puncher is Foreman, and they lived until 1980 aproximately. After that we have: Mike Tyson, Frank Bruno (there are similar comments on his PSI biggest than all others, but again, how reliable), David Tua, Lennox Lewis and Samuel Peter, I imagine some of them hitting stronger than Marciano. What others think?

Not to get into the Morales and Pac debut but Pac is a bigger puncher. Morales just has a style that will always to difficult for him and a great chin. (thats why he was not rocked to much by Pac in the fight) Thanks for the reply, it also may be chin related for this fight, although I don't think if it is the only reason. Commenter of the fight in the channel I saw it is very experienced, and said that Pac punches were small cat punches that don't hurt, while Morales throw some hard shots in some rounds.

i think its the bone mass, tyson hits much harder than holyfield but holyfield got more muscul than tyson. no matter how much and hard holyfield train he will never hit as hard as tyson. holyfield was blowing up from crusierweight so he didnt had the natural body and bone mass as tyson. Thanks for your comment, mass is main point of the thread question, first I think on taller boxers but then on mass to include others such as Tyson and Tua. Yes I think that if Holyfield decides to have even biggest arms, shoulders and back he still will hit less than Tyson.