radioraheem

VADA and USADA aren't or weren't in any position, they did their jobs. But if you aren't happy enough knowing you're right, go ahead. Like I said, playground stuff. Many of us know they aren't and weren't in such a position. We are just pointing out the bias and hypocrisy.

My opinions are always honest and they're based on logic. In my opinion, Manny did injure his shoulder before the fight. I made a thread on another forum questioning what I thought at the time were bizarre tactics. So when I heard about his shoulder, it made sense to me. I don't believe that Floyd was dehydrated to the point that he required an IV. Again, I'm a bigger fan of Floyd's. That's just how I see things. Those are my honest opinions. You aren't truly calling a spade a spade, and that is why I posed the question. There was no clear signs that he was injured pre-fight. And if they were, those signs were well hidden. There were no signs as to why he would need Lidocaine, Toradol, etc. And this is not to say he didn't have a legit injury. Just that to the eye -- nothing was obvious, even during the fight. I'd like to know these obvious or clear signs that he was injured pre-fight. Signs that everyone else was oblivious of before fight night.

If you're talking about the haters, sure, they'll jump on anything they can to criticise or discredit him in anyway. But what about the other boxing fans? Floyd's actions look highly suspicious. We know he doesn't struggle to make weight. We know he doesn't dehydrate himself like someone like Canelo does and then rehydrates by large amounts. We know what his 30 day weight was. We know what he weighed in at. We know he doesn't train after the weigh-in. We know those same figures were replicated in other fights, including against Berto shortly afterwards. If you take into account the above information, you have to be perplexed at why he needed 750ml of saline and vitamins in his home. It doesn't add up. Highly suspicious of what? Taking PEDs? Haha. They took a sample of his urine before the IV and after the IV. Both samples were negative. Even Victor Conte doesn't believe it's suspicious. He believes if Mayweather was in fact cheating by taking PEDs, it wasn't through the IV thing. He believes Mayweather is doing something else entirely. But up til today, hardly any of you can even repeat what he believes Mayweather is doing. And if you did -- it would destroy the IV conspiracy of PED usage.

LOOLL WUT? you think the difference in that picture is that floyd inhaled and exhaled???? REALLY???? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: The difference in those pictures though is many years and significant differences in weight and training. Kinda comparing apples with oranges there.

Great post. Don't expect a logical answer though. All you'll get are copy and pasted "USADA - Floyd did nothing wrong" quotes. Like you've mentioned, there was no sign of Floyd being dehydrated for the weigh-in. But then suddenly.... It's ilogical. You're in a losing argument because the same can be said for Pacquiao and many others. Pacquiao showed no signs of a fighter that needed Lidocaine, Toradol, etc, and/or one that had an injury. Yet, this is allegedly the case. A year later and the pain of that loss still lingers around here. Amazing this is even being discussed. Floyd truly owns you guys. :lol1:

I think it's highly suspicious that Floyd was so dehydrated after the weigh-in, he needed 750ml of saline and vitamins. I've given you valid reasons as to why I believe that. He only had to lose 3 pounds in 30 days. He weighed in at 146. Why was he so dehydrated? Was he also severely dehydrated after the Berto weigh-in? Who knows? It's anyone's guess just like it's anyone's guess as to the extent of Pacquiao's injury before the fight. But there is nothing suspicious about it. If you believe that he wasn't dehydrated, then so be it. But at the very least, he must have felt 'sh*tty' to take one. Just like Pacquiao must have felt some type of way to take kinda strong medications in the form of Lidocaine and Toradol. Many fighters, along with those in MMA, state that after taking an IV -- you quickly feel much better than by hydrating orally.

In what way are they biased or void? It seems as though you're trying to bait me into a Floyd vs Manny argument. I'm a bigger fan of Floyd's than I am of Manny's. No, it just would show your stance regarding the matter. Or whether you really call a spade a spade. If you say (2+2=4) and then I ask you okay if you believe that does (4-2=2)? And you circle around answering the question, it makes me wonder.

That was the WBC's doing not VADA's. The WBC decided to let that fight go on Incorrect. With the Vargas situation, the California Comimssion is allowing the fight to continue despite the positive result. And the excuse being used is contaminated meat -- same exact situation as Morales. But USADA was slammed about it, while there is silence for VADA. Where is Hauser? Where is his conspiracy articles accusing VADA? :)

USADA/VADA etc don't have the power to stop fights going ahead. You've dragged the testing agency into a field they don't operate in, to try make a snide point. You know this, yet you posted anyway. This is really why you posted: Larry likes Mayweather, Mayweather is associated with USADA, USADA is questioned by some, Larry doesn't like that, Larry goes on to post about VADA in an attempt to deflect the USADA criticism. Playground type of stuff. Anyway, I bolded what you typed. Shouldn't we praising VADA for catching this cheat? I disagree. His post is very relevant because he's showing the bias regarding the matter. VADA today is in the same identical position that USADA was in once upon a time and got criticized for. One point was that why did USADA continue testing after Morales was found positive? Well today, VADA continues to test despite a positive result. And the irony is that it's happened this year with not just ONE fighter, but with TWO separate fighters. And one fight is going to happen regardless.

I think Floyd's reasoning for an IV is illogical. I've never mentioned anything about Manny. Why are you trying to involve me in a Manny vs Floyd debate? Have you confused me with another member? I'm only a casual fan of Manny and he's not in anyway relevant to the points I've made. It is relevant to the same points you are bringing up. Because it is very similar. If you believe that Pacquaio had legitimate injuries despite not showing signs before and after the fight, then all your points regarding Mayweather are void and biased.

I thought they were the best and caught all cheaters right?? so why all the excuses for Povetkin? I remember USADA being slammed for allowing dirty fighters to fight, now posters are asking VADA to allow a dirty fighter to fight? The thing is, there's some ignorance about how much power the drug testing agencies have. Here we see another case where the Commission is allowing a fight to go on despite a positive result. Before they blamed someone like USADA for allowing it, allowing the fight to happen, and for allowing testing to continue despite the positive. Today though, a blind eye has gone down with VADA. Where is Hauser? Anyone see him? :)

so if the test came back positive there was masking? genius floyd fan and his logic. No, if the test came back positive then he was using PEDs. Or at the very least, a legit accusation could be made that he was using and even trying to mask via the IV. However, this is not the case as not only the before and after came back negative, but all other test results came back negative as well. He also tested the next day -- blood and urine, both negative. Rath and his logic. :)

if the test came back negative = no masking if the test came back positive = no masking when will you know there were masking = if there were no test that come back at all LOL genius floyd fans logic. Two things administering IV is known for 1. rehydration 2. PED masking Floyd was not dehydrated and therefore the IV was administered not to rehydrated but to mask PEDs. 750 ml in 15 minutes is not intended for rehydration. Did you even read? :haha: I said if there was a positive result, an accusation or valid claim could be made that he was masking. But unfortunately, a positive did not occur. A sample was taken BEFORE and AFTER -- this returned negative. Sorry :( You say PED masking. What PED could be masked by SALINE and VITAMINS that wouldn't be caught by a WADA-accredited lab within 24 hours? I'll wait. :)

This poster seems to think the IV is a performance enhancer. No point discussing anything with this guy. See ya later. :haha: :haha:

There was nothing suspicious because the tests came back negative? Seriously? How about the fact that he required an IV of 750ml in the first place? How the hell was that not suspicious? There's no logical reason for him being so dehydrated that that was the best course of action of take. It's nonsense. Anyway, nice talking to you. I'm going to leave it now. I may come back and read some more comments at a later date, but I've exhausted the topic so I'm going to find something else. Cheers. There is nothing suspicious because there was no PED usage. Taking an IV is not indicative of PED usage. And both before and after samples returned negative. If there was a positive, then you can draw suspicion about the IV. But unfortunately, this is not the case. Next, do you know how much 750 ml is physically? That is a small amount. 750 ml is equivalent to close to 0.2 of a gallon (20% of 1 gallon). Or 25 ounces. It's not much, but enough to help someone with dehydration versus using a mere 50 ml.

I imagine few, Wilder included, knew wtf this substance even was in 2015 so nah it wouldn't have played into anything with the fight. I think I'm more following PED **** then the average person & I only vaguely recall hearing of this drug about to be banned before 2016 & knew nothing of it beyond that. Most of the time it can be unknown or relatively unknown. WADA adds new things to the list every year. They are always playing catch-up to PED abusers, and so is everyone else not cheating. Things like 'The Clear' was used for years before it got known, banned, and arrests were made.

you are so wrong. the reason USADA DCO said he was dehydrated was that Floyd can't piss enough urine needed for the test. the before sample was not enough so it was mixed with the after sample. you seemed to suggest that the before and the after IV urine sample were tested separately and comeback negative is wrong. IV is also known to masked peds if floyd was not dehydrated then the IV purpose was not for rehydration but to masked peds. the result dame back negative because that was what the IV's sole intent and purpose to mask the PEDs. the IV did what it had to do, make the result negative, that is what IV is also know for. 750 ml of IV solution in 15 inutes is never for rehydration. Floyd was not dehydrated in the first place. A sample was taken before and after -- this came back negative. It doesn't matter if they were tested separately. Anything positive would have came out in the test results. The fact that the samples came back negative means there was no masking. And what PED exactly could he be masking with saline and vitamins? The testing is very advanced now, so only a fool would try to do such a thing a day before the fight. As Victor Conte stated, if Floyd was indeed cheating, it wouldn't be through using an IV. It would be through something. That something else though you have yet to even discover.

What do you mean there was nothing suspicious about it? You're kidding yourself. Being dehydrated is one thing, but being so severely dehydrated that you require an IV administered at your home, is another thing altogether. Come on. Why do you think he was so dehydrated he needed that IV? Again, his 30 day weight for Berto was almost the same, and he weighed in at a pound under the limit. It doesn't add up. If you don't think he cheated, that's fine. But if you're saying his actions didn't raise any suspicion of any wrongdoing, then you're just burying your head in the sand. There is nothing suspicious about it because his samples came back positive. Again, they took samples before the IV and after the IV infusion. All samples came back negative. Next, one of the most notorious former PED peddlers doesn't believe there is anything suspicious about it either, and doesn't think Mayweather was doing any PEDs in preparation for the fight. And he went on record saying that if Mayweather was doing something -- it was something else. But that something else you have no idea what it would be! And it is far more logical and doable without the risk of taking something so close to the fight! Again, he must have felt 'bad' to have taken one. Also keep in mind, this was the biggest fight in boxing history. Both fighters were going through a great deal of stress and nervousness. The magnitude of the fight alone would have taken a toll on them physically.

I dont have a dog in this fight because frankly I dont know the difference between VADA or USADA or whatever alphabet soup agency is being criticized. What I AM curious about is when it comes to the "trace" amounts that were found in Povetkin. The thing I find interesting is that they say his previous 3 tests were clean. If thats accurate, then how could the newest one only have the 70 nanograms or whatever miniscule amount they claim? So were the first 3 tests compromised in some way? Was he dirty all along? Or did the first 3 tests just miss the "trace" amount? Alot of questions here, but if they can prove he took the stuff after Jan 1 then he should get at least a 1 year suspension, if not more...... Here's another sad thing about the Povetkin situation. Andre Berto was caught with TRACE amounts too! And even VADA went on record that it was probably due to a contaminated supplement rather than him trying to purposefully cheat. But up til today, Berto is labeled as a cheat. But Mr. Povetkin is getting a pass. Interesting. :)

stop feigning ignorance. you know damn well people over the years have alluded to pacquiao's head and arms, calves, fist have grown and used that as evidence that he uses peds not considering the fact that he started pro at 16 and is bound to age and grow like i dunno every fcking human on earth. that critique has been bandied over the years here and you know it. You specifically said people including myself brought up pictures of Pacquaio at 16 versus today and used that as signs of PED usage. I am asking you to prove this. Can you? Thanks!

Well Povetkin fans hate VADA now for obviously reasons but I would like to know why VADA SHOULDN'T BE QUESTIONED when Victor Conte is or was associated with it! VADA is also Independent as if it is no way they can't be corrupt as well? They also just caught Francisco Vargas and let him go allowing to clear stuff out of his system so the fight can happen :nonono: that is not being talked about much because everybody is focused on Povetkin but this Vargas situation looks REALLY BAD! The problem isn't VADA, it's posters. There are some posters that opined that a positive on a VADA test was indicative of cheating. They didn't ask for more information or questioned VADA protocols in any way when they caught other fighters. Now that it is Povetkin there are a number of what I would say are credible, solid posters that have completely switched their opinions regarding VADA testing. They are asking for more info, careful investigation and saying that the positive doesn't mean Povetkin was using. This is not right and those posters need to be called out. Ding, ding, ding! These guys get it! :)

ohh reaaaally? do you give the same benefit of the doubt for pacquiao who started pro at 16 and whose look TODAY is being compared to how he looked at 16 as evidenced that he used peds because his body parts grew???? yea you dont. and we all know why that is RAHEEM. you floyd f@gs are just like floyd, shameless, steeped in fcking hypocrisy, double standards, and contradictions. GTFO. Who here compared a picture of Pacquiao at 16 versus today as signs of PED usage? Please show us. Thanks! :)

I'm not even a fan of Manny's, so no. A wasted post. The same thing applies. If you disbelieve in Mayweather's IV usage, then you must also believe that Pacquaio was totally telling lies about his physical condition before and after the fight.

Thats nuts. From 1988-2006 (19yrs) there had been 11 PPV's that had 1M+ buys & none that did 2M+. From 2007-2015 (9yrs) there have been 14 PPV's that had 1M+ buys, 3 that did 2M+ buys & 1 that did 4M+ buys. If you put on competitive fights they will come, if you don't they won't. There is zero evidence people won't buy PPV to see perceived competitive fights between top fighters. When you try to put one over on the public you tend to feel that in your PPV numbers. Within those 19 years, who were the prizefighters? Within the last 9, who were the prizefighters?

Pay per view is a rapidly declining market. Mayweather just did around 400K. Cotto-Martinez was around 250K. 150K is a solid debut.— Chris Mannix (@ChrisMannixSI) October 20, 2015 I'll wait for Canelo-Cotto but Floyd-Manny may hurt boxing PPV overall. It was already declining before that mega fight. Pacquiao vs. Algieri did 300K to 400K buys as well.

I suppose but if done right it can still be quite successful, to me that would be the main problem in this situation. Of course, it can still be successful. But there's no one in boxing that are big mainstream stars right now besides Mayweather and Pacquiao. GGG is not a mainstream star, not even close. Don't be surprised if Cotto vs. Canelo doesn't even hit 1 million. Years ago, that was a guarantee. Not anymore.

I don't know that 1 million was ever a sure thing for that fight, so I wouldn't be shocked. I do agree it is kind of a transition phase for boxing currently and PPV is not really the place to build star power, it can be done if someone steals someone else's shine. I also feel like the Promoters and also the Networks desperately are trying to hold onto PPV, the same way music labels were trying to hold onto album record sales. They don't want to adapt asap. They only wanna adapt when they are left with no other option.

How is it that the biggest news in boxing isn't being reported? Looks like allot of media outlets and boxing reporters are to have make some adjustments and start building new relationships in the near future. This decision could mean a fundamental change of the business model and operations of an entire sport. Not one article. Really!??!??! Don't be surprised if tomorrow/later today an article on BS pops up and this thread is merged with it. BS is not always on top of everything. :)

Interesting. Why is this not bigger news? Because Haymon won. :lol1:

You know who they are. But does it matter? Assuming Canelo wins next month as expected & does 800k+ numbers he's gonna be that next PPV guy to connect his PPV era to the Floyd/Manny PPV era (2008-2015) to the Oscar PPV era (2002-2007) to the Lewis/Tyson/Holyfied PPV era (1988-2002). I just don't see it. Prior to Pacquiao vs. Mayweather, no one was doing 1M+ buys anymore. Canelo hasn't come close on his own. Cotto hasn't come close either. Pacquiao and Mayweather no longer do those numbers alone. Canelo vs. Cotto will be fortunate to hit 1M. And if the fight doesn't hit 1M, it's pretty much the nail in the coffin that the 1M buy days are over. And assuming Canelo wins, then what? Who's going to be his next big dance partner to make an attempt @ 1M outside of GGG?