It's not even that close of a decision for me personally and I choose Floyd for 3 reasons:
1. Floyd fought better fighters either in or closer to their primes.
2. He did this while moving up in weight. Realistically he could have just stayed at lightweight and dominated for the next 10 years until he retired, but he chose to seek bigger challenges. Also, In general, the divisions that Floyd fought in were much more competitive than Joe's. SMW was always pretty weak.
3. Although I am a Calzaghe fan, I'll admit Joe's style leaves a lot to be desired. Floyd had a more impeccable skillset overall, and it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say he has no real holes in his game. Can't say the same for Calz.
The threadstarters got a point. I like Haye too, because **** the HW division needs something to bring it back into the limelight. Obviously the Klit bros aren't going to unify and what we need is a flashy power puncher like Haye to bring some excitement to the HW division again.
Say what you want about him. Weak chin, no defense or whatever. I agree he does have a suspect chin and lazy, undisciplined defense. He's still 10 times more exciting to watch than the two Russian robots! If you don't want Haye to succeed as a boxing fan, then it just means you're content with the sad state that the HW division is in.
pac has no chance against floyd. Floyd's taken harder punches from bigger and stronger fighters. Floyd's fought zab judah on one of his good nights and still won. Floyd's just got too much ring generalship and too much skill defensively for someone like pac. Not to mention size.
Cotto was having his way with counterpunching and slipping punches up until he got hurt. He was working the mitts on Marg's face but the pressure eventually broke down his defense. Mayweather would have his way with Marg technically and with his speed. Power isn't that big of a factor.
Zab Judah - He's like that fuck-up friend that you know from childhood that you want to see succeed.
Floyd - half the time I'm defending him, and half the time I don't know why I waste my time.
Joe Calzaghe - With all the criticism he gets for his slapping, people forget he's still probably THE most fluid, adaptable and versatile boxer right now.
what do you think of these two entities.....love and hate are welcome in this thread.
The UFC is lame simply because the pool of competition is crap. Guys with journeyman records for boxing are considered top 10 p4p in UFC. There's just too many variables that can happen in an MMA match that no one can stay undefeated. Too much luck involved. Just look at the records.
As for WWE, I used to love it when I was a kid. Bret Hart is the OG "Hitman", the excellence of execution baby!!
I think Calzaghe with a UD but it won't be pretty. Calz will have very few clean, actually damaging punches. RJJ will get in the better flusher shots but not as often. Calz will just take it on workrate. Overall i think it will be very ugly boxing from Joe, not unlike against Hopkins.
I would fuck up snoop dogg's skinnyass. I remember this scene in baby boy where he was wearing cutoffs, his arms were skinny as a cancer patient's. LL cool J the new cruiserweight champion!!
I'd rather see Joe C rematch Bhop instead. I think its pretty much a given now (not that it wasn't before) that Calzaghe would just box circles around Pavlik.
This will probably be one of the only objective posts in this thread
I think the only knock against Calzaghe is his resume. You would think that in 10 years of dominance, the best fighters on his list of wins wouldn't just be Kessler, Lacy, and a 4-punch-a-round senior citizen in Hopkins. Having said that though, his RESUME is the only knock against him. Speaking on skills alone, I think Calzaghe has got an insane skillset as a boxer, and is one of the most versatile and adaptable fighters in the game even at his age. He didn't sit down on his punches against Hopkins, but he has his whole career against anywhere below the light heavyweight division.
Personally I think Pavlik is one of those old school throwback type fighters. He grinds it out and is very exciting cos you know everything he throws is gonna have weight behind it. However, I think his game is quite a bit more limited than Calzaghe's. He can't counterpunch. He has very little upper body/ head movement. He's very slow footed. He's got a very accurate, effective, and powerful 1-2. That's about it. This isn't a knock against him whatsoever. Shit, look at Margarito. He's as one dimensional as they come, but he still destroyed Cotto. That 1-2 is good enough so far for him to have destroyed and cleaned out everything in his division. We haven't seen him HAVE to adjust his game against a crafty defensive boxer. Which is why I'm so looking forward to him fighting Bhop.
I think Calz is more overrated based on resume and who he's fought. But I think Pavlik is overrated in terms of his skillset as a boxer. I like Calz for his unique style and ringsmarts. I like Pavlik for his gut and willingness to make it an exciting fight, cos you know anytime Pav is throwing a punch its not just to score but to punish.
I think RJJ will shock a lot of people and make JC look a very one-dimensional and win a decision.
I don't think I've ever heard JC and one-dimensional in the same sentence before.
Under for sure. This is if DLH takes Pac seriously from the beginning. The question is will dlh carry pac into the late rounds just for the sake of not making the matchup look like an embarrassment? But yeah, if I absolutely had to bet RIGHT NOW, I would bet under 9.5 rounds.
No question about it, the fight that carries the most meaning is Bhop Pavlik.
Shane and Mayorga are both well past their primes and its more of a charity fight than anything.
Same thing with RJJ and Calzaghe (if Calz is really retiring, and unless RJJ somehow pulls an upset out of his ass).
Oscar vs Pac is going to be really one-sided in terms of Vegas odds. Even if Oscar wins, he was supposed to. And Manny was supposed to lose as well.
Pav is in his prime, and whether or not he can get past Bhop has huge consequences and answers a ton of questions. Everyone has questioned whether or not Pavlik has the ability to adjust midfight and if he is one dimensional. Bhop is the gatekeeper to those questions. Pavlik is in his prime unlike all the other fighters, which means he will have to own upto the results if he fails.
The only fighter I can honestly say that I felt for everytime he won and lost was Mike Tyson. I am one of the few people who will always defend Mike in a conversation around the cooler at work or in a casual sports conversation with my close friends (almost none of them watch boxing).
I always back Mike up whenever somebody talks about how ****ed up of a person he is (jail, rape, etc.) Well, you would too if you didn't have a father and your mother died at 16. Not to mention, your only father figure in your life passing away as well. I remember watching the Beyond the Glory for Mike Tyson and it genuinely made me sad.
When it came to matters in the ring, I just loved watching Mike destroy. He was seriously immortal to me. I remember thinking, how can anyone **** with this man?
I hated when my friends would be like "oh yeah Mike Tyson. I know him. He gets a lot of knockouts." I'd always tell them: YOU DONT GET IT!
Mike was about more than just knockouts. Look at that handspeed, look at that upper body and head movement! Heavyweight fighters aren't supposed to be able to do that! Not only does he have power, his technique and form is sooo underrated. I don't think I've ever seen Tyson throw an arm punch in my life. Watching his slow motion replays and how he shifts his weight from the ankles to the hips to the shoulders for each and every punch in like a 6 punch combination with such speed and fluidity is just beautiful to me. We won't be seeing another heavyweight and another athlete like Mike for a long, long time.
Deep down, Mike was just a tortured individual with many personal demons. He had so many issues and conflicts, yet you can tell by his interviews he is very self aware in a way too. This is what makes him not only just a dynamic boxer but a dynamic individual and character as well. He made you really able to relate to him on a human level and not as just some "superstar athlete" that you can't possibly relate to. He felt suffering and dissapointment and loss just like you or me. It really made me feel for him. It was even harder seeing Mike in his decline. Watching him lose to Danny Williams made me feel like a kid being told that there was no Santa Claus.
simple question,
if the prime 147 delahoya fought a natural 147 version of pacquiao, who wins?
their height/reach doesn't change, though.
Well, so Manny is still short and yet he weighs in naturally at 147? Shouldn't he be a slightly bigger build and frame if that were the case?
Boxing is simply just a much tighter sport. There's just a much higher level of technique in boxing. That's why so few fighters are undefeated in MMA. There's so much variety in MMA that anything can happen. Just compare how many losses there are for the P4P lists for both boxing and MMA.
I'll give MMA one thing though. The fans get to see the fights that SHOULD happen, and you can't duck in MMA.
A prime Tyson would get taken down and submitted in under a minute by Fedor. You throw an equally talented MMA fighter who trains boxing and they last longer. That is my point. Do you think Tyson trained jiu jitsu or wrestling? Nope. Do you think top flight MMA fighters train boxing? Absolutely.
Usain Bolt may be the fastest man in the world, but being a top flight NFL reciever encompasses much more than speed. Just like throwing a good punch is a fraction of what you need in MMA.
A boxer does have a punchers chance, but your stupid assumption that it would occur as much as 20% of the time has no basis.
I see your point. Where your argument goes wrong though, is that MMA isn't so much a compilation of many different fighting techniques. Like saying "oh boxing? that's just a tiny part of the skillset that you need to succeed in MMA". This is simply not the case. MMA is a whole nother style of fighting in and of itself. Just because you throw punches in an MMA match doesn't make it boxing.