Who deserves more credit

I'm far from the world's biggest Mayweather fan, but I just don't 'get' the criticism of him retiring when he did. I can't see there is any evidence he was remotely concerned about potential opponents, and plenty that he had just had enough of the sport. That, folks, is the time for ANY fighter to quit.

Miguel was never a legendary Mexican warrior and he was past it. JCC was past it as well so was Mayweather. This is professional not amateurs. What happened their doesn't matter. The fact The biggest name in Kostya resume is Judah which Mayweather Cotto and Clottey all beat convincingly Go back and read. And, if you can't do that, look at the pictures. You've alot to learn. Floyd dodged Tszyu. There's a reason for this. Probably Tszyu's laser right hand.

Joe doesn't get the credit he deserves. Floyd gets too much already. Thats very true!!!!

Look at Judah on his road up to Tszyu, and then look at him after. Mentally and Physically Judah was at his best going into that fight. After that KO, he was a mess. He would go up and down and never be consistent again Mentally or physically. Kostya popped his cherry and Floyd got a broken down Judah. Gatti's been stopped plenty of times and was washed up. ................................ There is no doubt about this. Zab was peaking and expected to be the next boxing superstar when he fought Tszyu. I give Zab credit for fighting just about anybody (unlike Floyd)...nobody can take that away from him. Anyway, Tszyu blew him up and Judah was never the same after that. Never. I've always suspected the Floyd's uncle Roger may have been behind Floyd's hesitation to fight Kostya Tszyu. After all, Tszyu defeated Roger, too....way back when.

Did he also soften up Hatton for mayweather as well?? :pat: The sad thing is Judah is his best name on his resume, and always will be. Quit like a coward in his last match Miguel Angel Gonzales was a legendary Mexican champion. Tszyu KOd him in 10. Julio Cesar Chavez was a fairly big name too, maybe a little bigger than Zab Judah....that was over in 6 (I'll grant you that Chavez was 38, but still...). Livingstone Bramble lost a decision to Tszyu in 1993, he was the only man to go past 2 rounds with Tszyu that year. Of course Tszyu blasted Sharmba Mitchell in round 7 in 2001 and then again in round 3 in 2004. But, let's take it back to 1991...Tszyu dominated Vernon Forrest in the amateur world championship. I guess what I'm saying is that there are lots of bigger names than Judah on Tszyu's resume. Again....you just don't know what you're talking about. Quite obvious.

Judah IS still Kostya best win regardless of what he did after the fight, pretty weak resume. Finishing his career on the stool was pretty disgraceful when he could have gone for one more round He could have gone out there, but he would have just taking more punishment. Tszyu was breathing through his mouth by rond 5 and I was surprised he actually kept fighting the way he did as long as he did. Even though I knew inactivity isn't good for a fighter, once he breathing through his mouth I was kind of stunned. I think they said Kostya suffered a concussion. At first it was reported bleeding on the brain, but that was played down to a Concussion. He was Old; Mentally he had changed. This happens. Arguello could have gotten up against Pryor but he didn't. Duran quit against Leonard. Sugar Ray Leonard didn't come out and was stopped on his stool...even if he was passed out. Chavez quit against Oscar...even though he says he didn't. It's the way it is. I like Floyd; I think he is a great fighter. His legacy is decent under 147, but it can be argued he ran from the competition at 147, which is why his resume there isn't strong. But I'll give him credit for moving up in weight when others don't.

people sometimes forget mayweather took on castillo/corrales in their prime...2 very dangerous fighters who's skill level and attributes were probably p4p

Are you had Kostya not beat Judah. Judah would have beaten Mayweather Cotto Clottey with his poor stamina??? Judah afater Kostya will to become undisputed champion at WW, must have nothing to do with his mentally than right :pat: Obviously you don't pay attention and you've never seen Judah fight prior to Tszyu...this is why I said take the time and go watch some of the fights prior to Tszyu. You do know that Stamina is attributed to Mental preparation as well as physical. If you break down mentally in a fight it causes your heart to race which causes your stamina to decrease at a faster pace. That's why you have to stay relaxed and confident people stay relaxed. I said Judah went up and down Mentally after his loss to Tszyu. He wasn't consistent. He had doubts when he fought. This is also why people will ask: "If this fighter loses, can he bounce back strong, and if so, how strong." Some fighters never quite recover that confidence they had.

Did he also soften up Hatton for mayweather as well?? :pat: The sad thing is Judah is his best name on his resume, and always will be. Quit like a coward in his last match Ah, NO. There is a difference. Judah got KTFO and never recovered mentally. Hatton won his fight with Tszyu so his confidence grew. Judah thought Kostya was past his best so he was expecting to win; Hatton was counted out. See the difference? Also, go back over Judah's career leading up to Tszyu.

Uh, you're responding to flawless. Just remember that next time you decide to hit "reply". I'm cool; don't worry.

Prime Kostya beat Mayweather how?? Getting stopped by Phillips proves he is stoppable FACT . Oscar fought Pernell which proved to be a harder fight and a great addition to his resume. Mayweather has stopped Bruseles and Gatti at 140 he has power there to stop Kostya. Kostya best win is still Judah, who lost to Mayweather Cotto Clottey Look at Judah on his road up to Tszyu, and then look at him after. Mentally and Physically Judah was at his best going into that fight. After that KO, he was a mess. He would go up and down and never be consistent again Mentally or physically. Kostya popped his cherry and Floyd got a broken down Judah. Gatti's been stopped plenty of times and was washed up. ................................

Let me ask you this, who has Floyd stopped that would make you think he could get Tzsyu out of there? If he can't stop Zab, how can he stop Kostya. Hell, he couldn't get Chop Chop out of there either. I think Zab get stopped if he doesn't low blow Mayweather or cause melee

I'll give you Phillips, no excuses since Tszyu was in his prime, but Hatton? They talked about Tszyu being past his prime for years. By the time he met Hatton he was 35 years of age, had two serious shoulder injuries that required surgery, and I here he may have been injured going into the Hatton fight which is why he got surgery again...and he fought 9 rounds in 3 years. He was past his best so I wouldn't go too much into the Hatton loss. The one thing I didn't like about his career is that I thought he should have moved up to 147 when Shane, Oscar, Tito, and Vernon were there. Uh, you're responding to flawless. Just remember that next time you decide to hit "reply".

Sorry to disappoint you. Prime Tszyu beats Floyd. Perhaps you forgot or simply didn't realize that Oscar left JrWW rather than have to stay and fight Prime Tszyu. (the commonly held excuse for this is that Oscar left to fight an old Pernell Whittaker...but let's just say....Oscar never came back.) Anyway.........it's been good. I'm going to bed. Night all. No, he doesn't. As good as Kostya was Mayweather would just box circles around him all night. Too quick and too good defensively.

Yea losing to Hatton and Phillips very special I'll give you Phillips, no excuses since Tszyu was in his prime, but Hatton? They talked about Tszyu being past his prime for years. By the time he met Hatton he was 35 years of age, had two serious shoulder injuries that required surgery, and I here he may have been injured going into the Hatton fight which is why he got surgery again...and he fought 9 rounds in 3 years. He was past his best so I wouldn't go too much into the Hatton loss. The one thing I didn't like about his career is that I thought he should have moved up to 147 when Shane, Oscar, Tito, and Vernon were there.

Kostya punches harder than Oscar at 154 now??? Sure sure :rolleyes: Mayweather took some flush shots to the chin against Oscar and did not move, yet Kostya at 140 will move Mayweather. Mayweather at 140 is stronger and faster than at 147 or 154. He would Baldomir Kostya's ass or stop him like Phillips did. Sorry to disappoint you. Prime Tszyu beats Floyd. Perhaps you forgot or simply didn't realize that Oscar left JrWW rather than have to stay and fight Prime Tszyu. (the commonly held excuse for this is that Oscar left to fight an old Pernell Whittaker...but let's just say....Oscar never came back.) Anyway.........it's been good. I'm going to bed. Night all.

Kostya punches harder than Oscar at 154 now??? Sure sure :rolleyes: Mayweather took some flush shots to the chin against Oscar and did not move, yet Kostya at 140 will move Mayweather. Mayweather at 140 is stronger and faster than at 147 or 154. He would Baldomir Kostya's ass or stop him like Phillips did. We are talking about prime for prime at 140 here. At 140 Kostya would have been the most powerful guy Floyd has ever fought. Mayweather would not have been able to take the necessary chances to get a stoppage as if Kostya got to him it is all over for Floyd. Mayweather would have won a reasonably comfortable decision from Kostya at 140 I think. Let me ask you this, who has Floyd stopped that would make you think he could get Tzsyu out of there? If he can't stop Zab, how can he stop Kostya. Hell, he couldn't get Chop Chop out of there either.

This is why I blame Australia ;) If you notice earlier in his career, Kostya moved his head and liked defense a bit. When he went up against Phillips, who actually finally got his act together, Tszyu wasn't moving his head and tried to battle it out; he kept taking flush shot after flush shot and thought he would be able to just take out Phillips; it didn't work. I've always thought Tszyu's problem was his Ego and over-looking certain fighters because his confidence grew too high. He was always at his best when he had to prove himself; that's when he prepared the best Mentally and Physically. I'm not sure what was going on outside the ring at the time with Phillips, but I heard it wasn't good and effected him...but, if true, he should have taken care of the outside distractions first. He still should have rematched him at some point. You don't have to make excuses for Tszyu's loss to Phillips. All the greats have lost a fight. (Calzaghe and Marciano excepted). But, I have to say that of all the non-heavyweights I have seen, Roberto Duran and Kostya Tszyu just blow me away. There are others to be sure, but there was something special when those two were in the ring.

A beast who was beaten by a can, sure mate. Twist anyway you like. Kostya wasn't that good at all. His best name to date is Judah. Nothing great really. So what he unify that division. Not that many great talent at the time. Mayweather would have stopped Kostya worse than Phillips did :lol1: Mayweather ain't Judah Mayweather would not have stopped Kostya. He would have had to try and outbox him - Kostya's power would have been way too much for Floyd to be able to try and trade with Tzsyu which is what Floyd would have needed to do to get him out of there.

ROFL! My friend, Tzsyu's only prime loss to Phillips is no indication that you know what you're talking about. Tszyu was the first man in 20 or 30 years to unify JrWW. That's like saying Sugar Ray Robinson lost a few fights therefore he wasn't a very good fighter. Tszyu was an emmense boxing presence and he owned, simply owned JrWW during his prime. He was a beast and Floyd didn't want to have anything to do with Kostya Tszyu. I might disagree with you on some things, but on this you are right on the money. Kostya was AMAZING in his prime. He is one of my all time favorites..