gamesworn

People may think I am crazy but I think Cotto needs to be put in the greatest fighter of the era as well. he gave us some very entertaining fights and fought everyone. Who can you say Cotto ducked? Sure, Cotto is one of the greatest of this era but still he lost to Pacquiao and Mayweather. People will always see Cotto below Pac and May in terms of greatness.

I disagree. Losses , when you fight a opponent, and quality of opponent matters. I disagree with you. Joe Calzaghe has no losses and have won against ATGs like Bhop and Jones but no one sees him as an ATG. Timing is what important here. Floyd fought the best when there are out of their prime or nearly shot. Skill alone is not the quality you need to become an ATG. Still, I consider him as an ATG, but not greater than Pacquiao. The way I see it, Pacquiao had more achievements than Mayweather but they will rank Mayweather higher than Pacquiao in ATG rankings because Pac is not American. And thats the sad part for me.:sad2:

Him not being ranked higher than Mayweather has nothing to do with him not being American. Also he contrary to popular belief pac didn't fight that much better competition than Floyd. Pac gets more credit for fighting Floyd's common opponents who were already beaten by him, and at a later time when they were older and more shot. Only thing people keep screaming is Morales and Barrera, well so the hell what. Floyd schooled JMM who Pac never got a clear win over and got KOd by. He clearly showed him that he's not on his level, WITH SKILL, NOT WEIGHT for all the complainers. Let me remind you that floyd is a true welter 147lber where these guys come in as middleweights at damn near 165, so the 2lbs wasn't a real disadvantage. He also schooled Canelo who is a young beast and right after beat the living sh^t out of Angulo who just whipped on Lara. Floyd came back strong after being hurt by Mosley and gave him a Jedi Master level ass whipping/outclassing. To hell with saying Shane was off 18 months. So what, he's a professional boxer and was the champion. If he was home eating twinkles then that is his fault, if your in that position then your supposed to keep yourself sharp with training and sparring. Where's the excuse that Floyd was off TWO years? Well guess what? He kept himself sharp and outclassed JMM with no problem like he was his son. Yes pac knocked Mosley down but, he couldn't really do anything with a ONE FOOTED Mosley, when shane kept turning him he didn't even know what to do with basic movement and Shane gave no real effort, he never even through a power punch at him. People need to stop the bias and double standards man and be fair. HAHAHA Pac and Floyd Common Opponents Pac-Marquez 2-1-1 / Floyd-Marquez 1-0 Pac-ODH TKO / Floyd-ODH SD Pac-Cotto TKO / Floyd-Cotto UD Pac Mosley UD w/ KD / Floyd-Mosley UD Pac-Hatton KO / Floyd-Hatton TKO Based on their common opponents. Pacquiao did much better than Floyd. Pacquiao gave Barrera 1 TKO loss in his entire career. And Pacquiao gave Morales his 1st ko and Tko losses. Disregarding Pac wins against Barrera and Morales and boosting May wins against Canelo. Morales and Barrera will be 1st Ballot Hall of Famer while Canelo needs more wins before getting in HOF Pacquiao defeated more bigger opponents than Floyd. Floyd was hiding his true weight and not stepping on the scale during fight nights on his Maidana Fights. Only Flom0 believes he was still less than or equal 150 on fight nights LOL. Pacquaio defeated Cotto and Marquez first before Floyd. Try Again :loser:

Around 6-10

Going by what you say there then Cotto was not drained then? That's what I'm thinking. And during that year, Cotto won his last 2 fights too.

and floyd refused to fight canelo at 154 ... what exactly is the point of this thread? As usual, to troll and discredit Pac achievements.

WW includes 141-147. Catchweight or not, they are still in weight limits. Cotto's best weight is WW

Amazing accomplishments by Manny Pacquiao. A true All Time Great of this Era 1. Going up in Weights and winning in 8 divisions. 2. Winning 4 Lineal/Ring Titles against 4 credible Champions (Sasakul, Barrera, Marquez, Hatton) 3. Have amazing big fights among Barrera, Morales and Marquez and have two wins against each of them. 4. Considered as Mexicutioner in some point of his career. 5. Resume filled with future Hall of Famers. 6. Defeating WW/JrMW opponents in a more convincing way than Floyd while he's not a Natural WW. 7. Returning to top as a Top 2/3 P4P fighter after having a devastating KO loss. On Topic: If he beats Mayweather, I'll put him on Top 10.

On paper, maybe. But when we consider when he beat his opponents, and do the same with Floyd, Floyd's wins are more impressive. Yeah having a decision against past prime fighter is much better than KOing them. Floyd wins are more impressive. LOL

1. Floyd Mayweather 2. Wladimir Klitschko 3. Roman Gonzalez 4. Sergey Kovalev 5. Manny Pacquiao 6. Gennady Golovkin 7. Guillermo Rigondeaux 8. Timothy Bradley 9. Terence Crawford 10. Miguel Cotto

First of all, this is a thread about Pacquiao, there is absolutely no reason to mention you know who. And yeah, it's about time we start to examine Pacquiao's record more closely. He's a top 50 all time fighter, I think it's important to look at his fight choices and the circumstances around them more closely. So he had several catch weights and fought weight drained guys or over the hill guys. I don't give him a lot of credit for the De la Hoya win, Oscar was a skeleton that night and was past his prime and weight drained, maybe if he would have fought Oscar at 154 the results would have been similar, but Oscar had no business fighting below 154, period. Cotto was a good win, sure Cotto could barely make 147 anymore and that 145 likely effected him some, but Pacquiao was too much for Cotto and more impressively he took Cotto's punches. He beat Bradley in that 1st fight IMO, but it was pretty close. Margarito at 150 was still a good win, that was a brutal fight. He lost the biggest fight in PPV history most recently. I thought he lost fight 3 to Marquez. And then Marquez nearly killed him in fight 4. Diaz, Algeiri, and Rios all had no business being in a fight with any top 10 P4P guy, bums. The KO of Hatton was one of Pacquiao's finest hours above 130, he looked unstoppable. Clottey was a joke and did nothing against Pacquiao. The Bradley revenge fight is where I thought that Pacquiao looked his age, won easily, but did not lookgreat. So that's pretty much his career above 130. A few great performances, a few losses, and several blah performances. His career at 130 and below was excellent highlighted by wins over Berrera, and a revenge win over Morales although Morales had trouble making weight for that 2nd fight. Also have to mention Oscar Larios, that was a good win. Took that loss to Morales also. I guess that brings us to the Marquez fights. He drew with him in fight 1. Won a split decision over him in fight 2. And won a close decision with him in fight 3. Before the KO in fight 4. I thought Marquez won fights 2 and 3, but fight 2 was close and not a robbery. I thought fight 3 was a borderline robbery. He's had a nice career. I still think he's top 50, maybe top 30. First of all Clottey (really underrated here) was not a joke fighter. The guy may not be the best WW at the time but he was one of the top 5 WW. Welter Weight at that time was actually great compare to now. You have to give few more credit for Pacquiao in his DLH fight because it was his first time going up in WW. Pacquiao made DLH quit too. If Marquez in their third fight didn't gave up the last two rounds, he could have won the fight. He was very competitive in first ten rounds (kinda like Oscar giving up the last 4 rounds against Tito). People always forget this. And his first fight with Marquez the decision could have gone to Pacquiao if one the of judges didn't screw up the scorecard. Instead of scoring the first round as 10-6, one jugde scored it as 10-7 resulting in draw.

None of the opponents you listed for Manny were in their prime either. Which is partially the reason why Floyd has more title fights. Floyd beat more guys while they were still title holders than Manny has. None of them were primes.wahahaha Floyd Fans loves spouting lies. Pacquiao beat Marquez and Barrera at their primes and best weight. Prime ATG wins. What is Floyd's prime ATG win at their best weight? Answer:None.

He didn't beat Marquez in his prime. They had a draw in their first fight and Marquez was 35 years old when they fought the second time. Pac Tards with their lies lol. Barrera was nearly 30 years old with 60 fights and was already talking about retirement when he and Pacquiao fought the first time. I said "clear knockdown" scored against him. Without the slow mo you wouldn't have seen if there was Knockdown. While Manny has been knoked flat on his ass and face several times in his career. Marquez was only 34 when he fought Pacquiao, another lie to you. Barrera was 29, won against Morales and Ayala after his defeat with PAcquao. Past Prime Wahahaha. Of course you wouldnt see it, the camera was not there when the knockdown happens, but the commentators saw it and slowmo vid confirmed it. The slowmo showed it was clear knockdown and the ref made a mistake. Keep lying to yourself though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8S5upDGK1Q 14:10 the knockdown, Go on live in your fantasy world.

Dude, Floyd has 20 more fights than Ward, has competed in more divisions, and has beat far more world champions, and he hasn't even had one clear knockdown scored against him. Ward, although good, is definitely not better than Floyd pound for pound. Another lie. Remember Zab Judah?

Like Hatton for example? Floyd ruined him and served him up on a silver platter to pad Pacquiao's resume. Ruined him WTF. Floyd Money Mayweather won't ruin you because he was over defensive during that time, maybe during his PBF days. Pacquiao, GGG, Margarito. These are the guys that will ruin you. Pacquiao ruined Ledwaba, Hatton, Margarito and DLH.

Thurman ud Porter.

Manny's Era ended in 2010 Floyd's Era is 2011-2015. There is no denying about that. That's the time he defeated Cotto, Canelo and Pacquiao.

I guess it's best to say that Diaz and Pac are on the same level especially since Pac is old. The domination tonight was real. Crawford showed that he is the greatest 140 pounder ever. But I still wonder does Pac have a chance if they fight? I hope Arum has the same mind set like you. So we can get Pac vs Crawford sooner than later. I think Arum still not convince that Crawford can beat this version of Pacquiao, hence the stay busy fight for both fighters. He wants to make sure the passing of the torch happens when both fighter meet each other.

Yes. So far, Mikey will be the hardest opponent Loma will ever face and for a good reason. I want to see this fight before Mikey goes up in weight.

Pacquiao will duck him now like the coward that he is Are you sure you are talking about Pacquiao. I'm pretty sure IVayweather will duck him now like the coward he is. I mean juiced up Mayweather.

None of them Based on eye test, Brook Thurman Garcia Vargas They need to fight each other.

I like and respect both fighters but think that Marciano had a better career for several reasons. One, he was a heavyweight. Any one punch could have ruined his perfect record . Two, Marciano was a stand up fighter and a slugger. He took on all challenges head on, and even when he got knocked down, he got up, persevered and won the fight. Floyd was mostly a defensive fighter, especially later on in his career. Three, he fought in a different era where fighters were much less protected. There's a good reason why all the great fighters that Marciano fought all had 5, 10, 20 losses. Going through that era undefeated is a much bigger accomplishment than doing so in the 2000s. Look at the current 'top' fighters - everyone is undefeated, and everyone has asterisks next to their names. I can make an argument that every single current P4P fighter is a hype job - Kovalev, Ward, Golovkin, Gonzalez, Brook, Crawford, Rigo, etc. It's arguable whose resume is better. But because of the reasons above, I feel that Floyd's accomplishments are less impressive than Marciano's. Great post.

Henry Armstrong? not sure I didn't study his whole career.

No, he's a legit middleweight.

Marquez KO6 Pacquiao Gonzalez TKO9 Akira Martinez KO2 Paul

Can someone explain to me exactly how FMJ defeated Pacquiao when he missed most of his shots and was countered all night. The clearer harder shots were all pacman . Are all casuals just sheeps who believe anything youre told ? That is because american media supporting the american guy. Even HBO, Pacquiao's network nuthugged Floyd(like Roy Jones praising Floyd def, then Pacquiao landing a punch, no mention at all). There were boxing commentators in other countries, who actually thinks that Pacquiao won the fight. All I can say is, it was close fight. And when the fight is close, Floyd will always get the decision.

If you look at Bradley's WW record the only ranked WW he beat was old JMM who people say isn't really a WW. Before the fight, JMM last win was against Pacquiao and after that, Bradley defeated him. That is much better than any other WW have done so far. Yes they are small WW but still it happens in WW limit. You cannot just ignore that Bradley had a competitive fights with Pacquiao and more proven than any other welterweights.

Well firstly, Pacquaio and Bradley weren't the universal #1 and #2. Secondly, the point of my post clearly went straight over your head which is baffling to me considering it's quite clear as to the point of the post. Then who is your number 1 and 2?

It's irrelevant, they weren't and aren't the universal #1 and #2, the divison is wide open. Welterweight is one of the last divisons in boxing with a universal #1 and #2. What Floyd got to do with anything? Is it a gag reflex for people to bring up Floyd for no apparent reason? Floyd vs Guererro having The Ring title on the line was a joke. But it's irrelevant anyway because that fight wasn't for the Lineage either. And even it is was it still has nothing to do with this scenario. Now tell me why Bradley was not considered as number 2 in the division. Thurman, Porter and Kell needs to fight each other to prove themselves. At least Bradley prove it by handling himself well against the best of the last generation.

No he isn't more proven, JMM's only WW win was against Pacquiao who people also claim isn't really a WW. Bradley WW record has no wins against top WW on it. Nonsense reply. So Mayweather wins against fighter who climb up in WW to fight him, holds no weight to his WW career. Hagler wins against Hearns mean nothing too in his MW career. It didn't add anything on their careers. This was based on your logic, of course. I will stop arguing you with because you are one of the unreasonable Floyd fans here. It will save me some time