what weight reports?
could you link the reports that Toney is even bigger than in March? I have not heard this, and there has been little if any information coming out of his camp.
I follow ND pretty closely. I would rather see him in the NFL. heavyweights that small better be able to fight, and he has no amateur background at the international elite level. He is a big time football player though.
Not sure whay people are surprised that Toney came in at that weight, that's what he is now. however he clearly looks better than in the Rahman fight, in which he looked horible phsyically and his eyes were bloodshot after the first round. I'd like to see him at 220 but he'll never get there so he is what he is. If reports of the roadwork he did are true he should look better than he has in two years. he looked good against Ruiz and was fat as hell.
Peter's weight I do not get. He already had stamina problems so he adds 12 lbs of weight? Rahman showed you can pressure Toney and outwork him to an extent, what you cannot do is try and beat him in a slow paced phone booth fight. Every clubbing telegraphed punch Peter throws will be countered. And he'll get hammered with left hooks to the body
Peter made a mistake coming in here out of shape.
Bowe
What's disconcerting about Toney's speech, as I posted after the first fight, is that he slurred badly immediately after the fight. Both in September and last night. Then he recovered and was fine pre-fight and with Jim Gray in the dressing room.
That leads me to believe he had a concussion in both fights, plus busted lips, but you can only take so much of that before you stop recovering.
It's more than mumbling
he sounded punchy after the fight. Both fights. He was exhausted and busted up but also had taken numerous concussive blows.
I think he needs to stop fighting, and I am a big JT fan
No
Age has ruined James Toney, just as it ruined Louis, Ali, Holmes, leonard, hearns, Duran, you name it.
The only exceptions are george foreman and Hopkins and Foreman was a freak of nature and he was beaten up by some mediocre fighters late in his career (Alex Stewart, Axel Schultz, Morrison). Hopkins has slowed considerably as well. It is a young man's game.
Every fighter is done when they are 38. yeah Toney could beat allot of heavie. Holmes beat Mercer when he was 42. But against a top heavyweight he simply doesn't have the reflexes anymore.
The James Toney of 2003 or 2004 would have slapped the sh*t out of Sam Peter, even the "new and improved Peter"
I agree
Let me preface this by saying I think Toney is shot and should retire.
I re-watched the fight last night.
I thought Toney won rounds 3, 4 and 12, and in the second half of the fight there were 3 or 4 rounds where Peter's output slowed allot and the rounds were close to even.
I think the tone was set in rounds 1 and 2 and Toney needed to change the tide and could not. Had he wobbles Peter with those big rights hands in r3, maybe we look at the fight a little differently.
But those scores were a bit, though not drastically, off.
116-111 was how I scored it. 115-112 would have been a reasonable score as well.
Yeah the jokes are ironic because not one person on here would stand in with Peter for 12 seconds let alone 12 rounds, and yet people mock a brain injury and question his manliness?
If the injury is true the man should not be allowed back in a ring in any State.
I suspect you're right; but 237 makes me nervous. Hope you're on the money.
Don't get me wrong. I cannot fathom coming into an opportunity like this at that weight. he literally would be set for life with an impressive win.
I have no doubt that the guy trained hard for two months. The problem is starting camp at 270. Given that starting weight it was better to just do the work and be strong rather than melting down. Had he started at 250 he'd have come in at 220 or so. It's really absurd to come in at that weight.
To me Rahman has quit, not in so many words, but basically mailed it in when the going has gotten tough. He will be frustrated and the same thing will happen. Remember how bad he was against Holyfield? he was terrible. All he has done is gotten older.
I think 237 is high but the pics I saw of the weigh-in show that Toney has been lifting allot of weights as well. Unless he got old overnight then I am not sure it will make a difference. Rahman has been really awful in allot of fights, even when he has been in shape. The idea that Thell Torrance is going to make him an educated fighter all of the sudden is to me just fantasy. The Toney that fought Ruiz at a flabby 233 with one arm would win 7-8 of 12 rounds against Rahman (who by the way looked terrible against Ruiz). A muscled up 237 pound toney wins a competitive but increasingly one sided fight, UD 12.
He is the fat kid who can kick your ass.
How did Frank Bruno do against Tim Witherspoon?
Mike Weaver against Larry Holmes?
You can eitehr fight or you can't. Rahman will be exhausted in the later rounds and the "fat kid" will be calmly slapping the shit out of him.
Toney can certain;y be beaten, but it will take someone with skills, and the Rock doesn't have them. The way he fights low will actually make it easy for Toney to get to him. The fight is a complete mismatch.
A guy like Klitschko can give Toney a world of problems bc he fights tall.
I don't understand that statement, no offense. He looked much fatter against Ruiz and literally played with the guy. Ruix was a 230 lb guy who beat Rahman, Holfield probably three times, and has been in with everyone. Guinn showed up in shape and could do nothing with Toney. Holyfield destroyed Rahman and could do nothing with Toney.
How would you feel if Toney was fighting Oliver McCall? because that's who Rahman is. A guy whose entire career is one right hand. or Renaldo Snipes. Rahman cannot dominate mediocre fighters and is an absolutely helpless inside figher which is where James will be much of the fight.
Like Rahman against Oleg? Holyfield? ice Cole? Tua twice? When will this man win a big fight. he caught Lewis with a good shot and that is his only chance here.
From these rankings Toney will be the mandatory next month because if Vlad wins the IBF title he will not be ranked. Toney versus Brewster is an interesting fight
I have to believe that Toney will come in at some more reasonable weight for that fight.
In any event Brewster just stands there so that would be an awesome fight.
I actually thought his condition would be worse. He looks very strong.
Toney looked worse versus ruiz and guinn.
This will be a one sided fight down the stretch ones he breaks him down. Rahman was even lighter than this for Barrett and was horrible. He is tight and gets tired and is rendered useless. Toney could have pulled a Ruiz (two weeks of light bag work and lots of buffets) and won the boxing match.
As it is he came into camp huge, worked obviously hard for 10 weeks, and will kick the crap out of Rahman.
as much as i wanna see a rematch that is a hoe move on the part of Toney....ol boy wasnt sayin shit during the fight about it and you already know if Toney woulda won then he still wouldnt be sayin shit......thats alright...i say do the rematch so Rahman can KO him this time....
I really think his lawyers are just doing something to counteract what Dennis Rappaport is doing, which is threatening to sue if his guy Oleg does not get the fight. It's whiney but actually a smart move.
If he does not get a rematch for all intents and purposes he needs to move on to Brewster or someone else. And only Rahman's name and HBO will get him $2 million. Fighting for a WBO belt on showtime is only about a $1 million payday. Better to spend a few dollars on lawyers now to try and position himself.
It is a whiney move but it is just a way to give the WBC a hook to get around the mandatory that Oleg M is in line for. They are just looking for a way to be on equal footing with Oleg (i.e. Oleg says he will sue if he is not given the shot, and now Toney says yeah I will sue as well). Or, maybe they want to make sure that Toney stays No. 1 to fight the winner of Rahman and Oleg..
Although I thought it was a fair draw, Toney was so out of shape he does not really deserve a rematch. That was a disgrace. He is fortunate that he will be the mandatory for Brewster and probably the Oleg-Rahman winner. he may even be the mandatory for Valuev after June.
Rahman was in even better shape for his snoozer with Barrett. He weighed 232 and was horrible. He just is not a really good fighter. he was so ineffective against a shot Holyfield it was pathetic. How is he going to win tomorrow. Wild lucky punch? Maybe. But there is no way he can win 7 rounds of 12 against Toney.
he is not unlike Michael Grant. Great physical tools, just not a really good pro fighter.
Jimmy Young, Jerry Quarry, Joe Frazier
all smallish heavyweights who took too many shots and ended up punchdrunk....Young and Quarry worse than Frazier
Of course Toney could beat allot of guys. So what. He needs to get out bc he cannot win the title and he will end up slurring terribly in 5 years.
Smallish heavyweights
Have you heard Joe Frazier speak? He sounds better than ali, but is that the baseline?
Yeah it depends on the individual. Camacho, Terry Norris, Hearns, Jimmy Young, Quarry, Ali, Frazier, Riddick Bowe, Holyfield. When you box for 15-20 years, it catches up
James toney, whose speech is slowing slightly but perciptibly, needs to call it a career.