Adamek was an accomplished cruiser and had a dominant win over Arreola.
Dominant? Arreola was bouncing him around the ring with every punch. I had Arreola winning that fight close, and if the big man hadn't injured his right hand or arm or whatever with 3 rounds to go, I think Adamek was probably going to get stopped. Not to nitpick, but yeah...anything but dominant.
That being said, I think Vitali has beaten 3 legitimate top 3 contenders, and they are Peter, Adamek, and Sanders. So from the perspective of the opponent's accomplishment level, clearly I think he's got to be one of the top 3. But I think in terms of actual subjective quality of the opponent...probably not. Adamek only got to the point of being ranked that high by cherry picking his opponents. By the time he fought Vitali, Adamek's abilities as a heavyweight probably were barely top-10 level, in my opinion.
Pretty sure he still has Marcus Oliveira (you can tell from the inactivity/crappy competition), and I think he might still own Ryan Coyne's soul even though Coyne did his best to jump ship already. The two are fighting on ShoBox this week. The winner should have some upside in a division that's there to be had as far as I can tell. I've never seen Oliveira, but I've seen Coyne a lot. He went to college with me too. Good guy and can crack, but he has the handspeed of a heavyweight near as I can tell.
I thought he had a draw with Dirrell although based on styles I was sorta happy he won because if everyone fought like Dirrell did in that fight I would not be a boxing fan. Granted, by rounds I would have found it easier to see Dirrell winning than Froch, but I still had it a draw and I stand by it. I also thought Froch beat Kessler, but way too narrowly to expect a decision in Denmark. I had it 115-113, but it definitely could have gone either way. Not a robbery...but the 117-111 judge was not being fair.
On balance I'd say Forch gained an undeserved point for the win rather than the draw against Dirrell and lost 2 points he could have won based on the Kessler loss. I am all for a neutral site fight. Canada sounds like the best option to me. Continental Europe wouldn't be fair to Froch and UK wouldn't be fair to Abraham. I don't know what Sauerland has against Vegas, but US, Canada, and Scandinavia all seem pretty fair to me.
Nah. That distinctive title belongs to Shane Mosley.
You mean the same Shane Mosley that hid his own PED use for years? I hope that was sarcasm. Hard to tell in print.
Answer the question what does he gain from the ref saying 10 instead of waving?
I'll bite. It gives him a moment to reflect. Waving at 10 means you've made the decision that the fight's over at least a split-second before 10, which means the real time a downed fighter has been allowed to rise is somewhere between 9 and 10, which is wrong. If you're waving on the beat of 10, you can get caught in an awkward position wherein you are raising your arms to wave a split second after the guy has risen. The proper thing to do at that point would be to change your mind awkwardly and get the fight back in motion if the guy is fit to continue. Why not say 10 first and avoid painting yourself into a corner?
Wait...this is the same Nobuhiro Ishida that recently lost at a lighter weight to Rigoberto Alvarez, right? And Rigoberto Alvarez is the same guy that recently lost to fringe contender Austin Trout, right? Just checking.
Several things bother me about the writing in this article.
First, it makes illogical conclusions based on the situation. How did his collapsing serve to "rubbish" suggestions that he was trying to get out of the fight? All that did was prove that he had a darned good reason for wanting to do just that.
Another ridiculous thing the article does is state unequivocally that fouls caused his brain bleed, as opposed to the comprehensive beating he was taking overall. Even a doctor could never say that with any confidence, let alone a below-average sports journalist.
Not only that, but it unfairly blames the referee (and Williams by implication) for Colon's circumstances, when if you watched the fight at the time, without bias, you would realize that Colon was the one breaking the rules more often than not. That obviously doesn't mean it wasn't tragic what happened to him, but to act like the wrongful actions of the ref and opposing fighter are responsible for his coma is to ignore the context of this individual fight itself, let alone boxing as a whole.
And for heaven's sake. Let's not pretend that what eventually happened proves the motivations of his corner at the end of the fight were purely innocent and mistaken, or even less likely- noble. I felt very strongly at the time, and I feel very strongly now, that they absolutely took his gloves off knowing full well that the fight hadn't just ended. They knew full-well that he could not have answered the bell for the final round, and were hoping to buy him time to do that if the ref let them get away with it. It was a crafty gamble given the information available at the time. There was obviously a risk of a DQ, but it's not like anyone thought Colon could have made it through another round after a 60-second break. It was a calculated risk, because at that point, they really had nothing to lose by breaking the rules. They weren't trying to save his health, either. They would have waved the fight off during the preceding round if they'd been trying to do that. I feel very strongly that they intended to send him back out there after buying him a 3-4 minute rest, hoping that he would at least avoid a stoppage loss, and possibly win a decision by robbery.
Vitali by KO. No doubt. Interesting fight though. Hopefully it'll get TV coverage in the US based on the novelty of two top 10 contenders over 6'7" squaring off and the fact that Valuev's never been stopped. I want to see the fight.
I don't know if you are trolling or not, but this response is based on the assumption you aren't.
When the heavyweight's best (Wladimir) fought the cruiserweight's best (David Haye), the heavyweight won. When one cruiserweight's best (Huck) fought one of heavyweight's possible best (Povetkin), the heavyweight won again.
If Chambers dropped down to cruiserweight he would clean the division out.
Your case is flawed due to the weakness of 2 of your premises, one in particular.
True, Wlad proved himself superior to Haye. No arguing that. But he has also proved himself so superior to the rest of the division that there is a lot of room to debate the rest of the division's head-to-head prospects yet.
Povetkin was the clear #3 heavyweight behind only the Klitschkos when he fought Huck. Huck, on the other hand, deserved to be ranked #4 in his division behind Hernandez, Lebedev, and probably also Tarver when you consider that he had just been clearly beaten by then-6th ranked Lebedev, while Tarver had beaten a top-10 ranked Green without any red ink on his resume. Possible steroid abuse aside, of course. So Huck was at least arguably fighting above his own rank AND above his own division.
And of course the key point: Huck DEFINITELY outfought Povetkin, and most likely deserved the win. You can argue the specific score and I won't necessarily disagree- I would be on board with anything between 116-112 Huck and 115-113 Povetkin- but Huck clearly had the overall better night. And let's be honest. If an Archangel or something came down from heaven and told you that the man upstairs is a huge boxing fan, has a strong opinion on the fight, and had decided to condition your entry into Heaven or Hell upon your picking the true deserved winner of the fight, I seriously hope you'd pick Huck.
Just for a visual (and I'm not claiming to know who'd win each fight for sure), here are the top 10 heavyweights in my opinion, head to head with the top 10 cruisers:
1. Wlad vs. Denis Lebedev
2. Vitali vs. Yoan Pablo Hernandez
3. Haye vs. Troy Ross
4. Adamek vs. Cunningham (I still include him because he's fought at CW in the past year and hasn't accomplished anything at HW yet)
5. Povetkin vs. Afolabi
6. Fury vs. Wlodarczyk
7. Chambers vs. Arslan
8. Pulev vs. Huck
9. Chisora vs. Kayode
10. Helenius vs. Guillermo Jones or Danny Green
My sense is that the top 4 Heavyweights probably beat the top 4 cruiserweights, but I'm seeing a lot of tossups after that. Luckily, we'll get one of these matchups in 6 weeks' time, and Chambers will apparently be testing himself at Cruiser soon, as well.
Oh come on! The cover up got him? Give me a break. It's the dangerous nature of his cheating and the fact that he likely beat another top fighter half to death by doing so in a prior incident that makes everybody hate him. Nobody really expects him to admit to something that heinous, and his suspension would last longer than it currently is if there wasn't at least a little doubt that he was ignorant or the situation.
Mosley got lucky because performance enhancing drugs were so ubiquitous by the time he got caught that most people don't care any more. They've seen literally hundreds of baseball players alone get away with it. Plus the fact that the drugs only make a fighter a stronger or more well-conditioned version of himself. A guy cheating to make himself a better fighter internally is more palatable somehow than a guy essentially hitting the other guy with brass knuckles for 12 rounds. Mosley only gets a pass because he's a friendly guy, American, and got caught in a way other than red-handed. Margarito's a big foreign beast to Americans, and Mosley's a likeable American athlete. I wouldn't be surprised if the average Mexican fan views Margarito with approximately the same respect with which the average American views Mosley.
I am not saying Sturm won, but he wasn't dominated by any means. It was close enough that rematch is still an interesting fight IMO.
I had it a draw, and honestly thought it could have been wide for either guy, or close for either guy. Almost every round was a toss up. One of the most prototypically close fights I've ever seen. And of course Sturm almost certainly deserved the win against Soliman, so unless Soliman is somehow vindicated, I'm very comfortable viewing this as a straight-up win for Sturm.
Just because the judges didn't score the body punches doesn't mean it was the right call. One of the huge differences between amateur and professional boxing are body punches. Amateur boxing doesn't score body punches, professional fights do.
If that's the case, boxers should never attempt to throw body punches if ultimately it'll cost them the fight.
Also, how many clean punches did Judah land?
Watch the 3,4,6, and 9 round. How many clean punches were there? And how many shots were landed to the body by Matthyse in those rounds.
It's not rocket science. Judah didn't do enough to win those rounds.
This fight reminds me a little of the first Castillo-Mayweather fight. I thought Castillo did enough work to the body, and was busy enough to win a close decision against Mayweather. The judges, like in this case, gave it to the flashier, local fighter who seemed to have been outworked by a busier fighter in many rounds.
Ring generalship does not win you rounds, nor do a couple of "clean" shots. The guy who is doing more damage and landing more is the one who should win rounds.
Look at Matthyse's face. Not a scratch. Was he affected by any of Judah's punches? Not one.
Look at the payoff Matthyse got from the body punches.
Doesn't that tell you that the most effective puncher, who did more damage in those rounds, was Matthyse and not Judah?
Very well said. I go a step further, though. I agree with you that, for the reasons you stated, Matthysse won rounds 4, 6, and 9 beyond a reasonable doubt. I think he won 3 also by only a slightly lesser margin. I also thought he won 7 clearly, and that he won 2 and 8 narrowly. I gave him 5, but I damn near made it 10-10- edged it to Lucas based on effective aggressiveness and ring generalship, which were on his side in every round except maybe the first. I believe I can extrapolate from your message that you scored it 115-112 which I think is basically a fair score considering the fight was in Judah's back yard and the judges would naturally give him some close rounds that I gave Matthysse without their competence or honesty being called into question. I do think, however, that an equally fair score in Argentina would have been 120-107. I think a dead on neutral-site score would have been more on the order of 119-108 (my card) or 118-109. I'm not even sure I realized at the time just how much Matthysse was controlling the action or how much he was making the fight (what little there was at times). I came to my 119-108 based almost solely on the clean effective punching edge he clearly had over Judah in most rounds.
After months of negotiating, Ustream.TV will again throw its hat in the boxing ring on Dec. 10 in Atlanta, GA. This fight will feature the “Resurrection” of the Legendary 12 Time World Champion, Roy Jones, Jr. fighting Max Alexander for the UBO Inter-Continental Title. This fight will be shown Live on Internet Pay Per View for the reasonable cost of $9.99. The link for the Internet Pay Per Vew is http://www.ustream.tv/royjones
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Hm. No byline here, but it's pretty clear that this was written by a promoter. And not a very smart one. Who are they trying to fool comparing Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones at this point in their careers? This is a has-been versus a nobody. If there happens to be a decent undercard I might be willing to pay 10 for it on TV, but I'm not going to pay money for an internet stream anytime soon. The main event will probably feature about the same combined skill level of your average Fox Sports Fight Night Club undercard fight, so I'm not sure why they think they deserve PPV money of any kind for it.
Won't happen, too much risk for both.
Totally agree. No way De La Hoya puts his two heavyweight prospects in together unless it's at LEAST a title eliminator. There'd have to be big money in it before it would be near the table, let alone on the table. And it's not like the two are going to be calling each other out or beefing. I sat right in front of Wilder and right next to Mitchell at the Alexander-Maidana fight in St. Louis, and the two guys sat there and talked like best friends and joked around for about an hour straight.
Brudov is hardly a great fighter, but from the perspective of someone who will be ringside at the fight, I'm happy to hear about it. I'll be especially happy if he fights at least a real good journeyman in order to give us a competitive fight. It would have been cool if he replaced Coyne's current opponent. That would have been a much better idea for Coyne than the Jones fight was, anyway.
Look at that. The black biitch who scored it 114-113 for Hopkins over Calzaghe scored this fight a draw. Gee, could she be biased against white fighters?
Nice race-baiting. Did you even watch the fight? There were 4 rounds (4,5,7,and 8) that could have gone either way. I had it 96-94 Lopez, and I'm as white as they come- whiter than the Ghost, even. Anything between 97-93 either way would have been fine with me. Dick Houck and CJ Ross are the judges with explaining to do on this one. I gave Pavlik rounds 3, 5, 6, and 10. I'll also spot you 4, 7, and 8. Now I dare you to find the extra round that Dick Houck saw, or especially the two that Ross did. They're not there. Lopez CLEARLY won 1, 2, and 9.
Also- Rick Reeno- tighten up your writing, boss. 170 is light heavyweight, and even if you stretch and call it super middle, it's certainly not "official" and certainly not his debut at that weight (fought at 170 vs. B-Hop).
Either Lopez has a marquee future, or Pavlik is done as an elite fighter, in my opinion.
Oh jeez. :pat:
A wave after 10 means nothing at all, it's irrelevant the fight ended as soon as the ref reaches 10.
But the physical act of waving takes time. If a wave at 10 properly ends the fight, it logically must mean one of two things:
1) the decision was actually made before 10, or else the ref could not have gotten his arms up promptly at 10.
2) The wave at 10 was delayed so as to make sure the fighter didn't rise in time, in which case it's really a "silent 10" and wave rather than a true "wave at 10."
This is as bad or worse than any other robbery I've ever seen. I had it 120-108 Rebrasse. Only 2 of those rounds were arguable, and only one other one was even close. It was not just a clear victory for Rebrasse- it was a dominant one.
The idea that he has to dignify Ndiaye with a rematch is sickening.
cud be a nice scrap even if paul might whoop him
I honestly don't see Deandre winning that fight- mostly because the one time I saw him live he looked like dog crap (or perhaps cat crap) against Sammy Sparkman- but he does seem to step it up a bit against better fighters, so you never know. I think as highly as Spinks was rated, though, Williams is still a substantial step up from there, and even though I thought he deserved a draw in his second fight with Powell, he had really reduced Sechew to a gatekeeper by that time.
This is a pretty good fight for both guys I think. Williams would get a very inconsistent fighter without much KO power to come back against, while Latimore would have at least some chance to get back from obscurity into the top 10.
Won't happen, too much risk for both.
Totally agree. No way De La Hoya puts his two heavyweight prospects in together unless it's at LEAST a title eliminator. There'd have to be big money in it before it would be near the table, let alone on the table. And it's not like the two are going to be calling each other out or beefing. I sat right in front of Wilder and right next to Mitchell at the Alexander-Maidana fight in St. Louis, and the two guys sat there and talked like best friends and joked around for about an hour straight.
What a stupid misleading headline and badly-written article. The fight could have gone either way, and you disrespect the victims of actual robberies like Dereck Chisora, Erislandy Lara, Lucas Matthysse, and indeed Campillo himself in the Shumenov fight, when you call this one a robbery or even an arguable robbery. I had the fight a draw. Sure, Campillo could have won up to 3 more rounds without much argument, but Murat could have won a couple more, himself. There's just about an equal argument that Murat was robbed. The draw was a perfect decision here, and boxingscene should be ashamed of this article.
I changed the 10 heavies to the ones I think best. I left the cruiserweights the same because you are batting for the cruisers, so you should select the one you want. I put Vitali in 4th place because he is 41 now.
The fights:
W. Klitschko vs Denis Lebedev
Price vs Hernandez
Haye vs Troy Ross
V. Klitschko vs Cunningham
Wilder vs Afolabi
Povetkin vs Wlodarczyk
Adamek vs Arslan
Arreola vs Huck
Perez vs Kayode
Chagaev vs Green
Dude. I wasn't picking the top cruisers and heavies because I was trying to make the cruisers win. I was picking the guys with the best resumes in each division and comparing honestly. The matchups that resulted were not pre-arranged, which I presume is exactly what you were trying to do, since I can't believe for a second that you consider Deontay Wilder a top 10 heavyweight, or that David Price should be ranked ahead of Vitali Klitschko. I don't care what your criteria are, that's the most haphazard set of rankings I've ever seen. Wilder is not even a top 50 heavyweight. He's never even beat a decent journeyman. Price's best win is Sam Sexton, who is at best the 5th-best British heavyweight, and if we're being generous, barely a top 50 fighter. Chagaev's last significant win was almost 5 years ago against Matt Skelton. Mike Perez hasn't beaten anybody yet. Arreola has never beaten a top 25 heavyweight, and hasn't even beaten anyone with a pulse in 3 1/2 years. It's like you took a random sample of the Boxrec Top 100. Where's Dominick Guinn? lol
And in case you're going to try and tell me that you're some extraordinary talent evaluator that can project how an unproven fighter is going to perform 5 levels above the guys he's actually fought, let me tell you this: I saw Wilder in person fighting a talentless 40-year-old blown up cruiserweight named Marlon Hayes that looked like an awkward midget version of Kimbo Slice. I'm not saying Wilder looked totally crappy or anything, but he was having real trouble landing on the guy until Hayes pretty much just went away from fatigue. I'm not saying Wilder won't eventually progress into being a dangerous heavyweight, but right now I think Afolabi would work him over. I don't think he could find the range to make solid contact.
Anybody else think this fight was a helluva lot closer than the official scores? I mean I thought Ward was by far the more impressive of the two, but round-by-round I thought Abraham did a good job of blocking most of Ward's shots, and that almost every time he let his hands go a few times, he stole a round. I thought Abe clearly won rounds 2, 3, and 12, and that he also somewhat clearly won 1 and 11. I only had Andre winning 115-113. I think some of the judges and sportswriters weren't prepared for Abe to do anything at all in the early rounds and missed the fact that he won the first three.
The "Black Panther" Juan Carlos Gomez (49-3, 37KOs) was successfully operated on by Dr. Andreas Werner. The were several hours of surgery on the left shoulder and everything went well, but a second injury was discovered during the procedure. In addition to the pre-diagnosed torn tendon in his left shoulder, the doctor found a torn articular lip.
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It's okay. In the matter of months that he's out, Gomez will fight the same number of quality opponents that he's fought in the last 2 years combined, and won't even lose in the process this time!
I just put 2 and 2 together and realized that, since JC is the #1 contender for the WBC at 154, apparently Sergio's options to keep one of their belts were limited to Zbik and JC...so from that perspective he actually made the right choice. But goodness gracious...can the guy sack up and dump his alphabet belt in order to fight something better than a borderline top 10 contender or an absolute non-entity? This might not be the Henry Armstrong era like I think Sulaiman said recently, but let's at least have a decent championship fight of some kind every once in a while...
Devon Alexander needs to commit to his punches and start taking a few risks. He's got lightning-fast hands, but despite this, he's still not much of a boxer. He sits on his back foot and flicks light jabs. That's why Kotelnik schooled him, and that's why Bradley beat him. He's clearly got power in his uppercut and maybe in other punches if he'd try, and ought to use it. He was badly outboxed by Bradley and Kotelnik because he's a finicky boxer. Can't pull the trigger. Cunningham is right about that. Hell, he wasn't even really decisively outboxing the big caveman Urango before stopping him with one punch. Yeah he outboxed the hell out of a fading Witter, but about the best you could say about Junior at that stage was that he was a bit awkward and a bit of a cutie.
Props to Cunningham for saving lives and stuff like that in the ghetto (and for knowing whom to root for in baseball), but in my opinion he's not a prime-time trainer. Based on the limited info that we have, his only marquee fighter is a total frontrunner who hasn't made one single adjustment in his last two abysmal efforts.
Murray had to do more to take the title from the champ. It's not Sergio's fault they gave him the decision, no reason to look down on him
I must not watch enough boxing. I had some weird idea that clean effective punching had something to do with the way a fight is scored. Didn't realize it was all about activity and which guy is the Champion.
Please educate me. How many rounds do you have to win as a challenger in order to actually deserve a win in the fight at large? Or how much do you have to win a round by before you've actually really won it, when fighting a Champion? And did Murray get informed of these special scoring standards before the fight so that he could train and fight accordingly? How foolish he and his team were to go into the fight not knowing the rules, and think they only needed to fight better than the champion in a majority of rounds and/or score a knockdown or two.
Adamek lost 7-5 maybe even 8-4.
I'll go even further. I think he won 8-4 at an absolute minimum. Anything between 8-4 and 10-2. The only rounds Adamek definitely won were 5 and 12. Cunningham definitely won 2,3,4,6,7,8,10, and 11. 1 and 9 were swing rounds, both of which I gave to Adamek.