Lets_Get_It_On

Manny landed some good punches doe. :lol1: Actually Manny landed the best punches of the fight.

This isn’t a Mayweather-Pacquiao discussion so mods don’t delete. It isn’t a thread about me nor any other poster either so try not to keep take it there. The poster “Malcolm” made a really good point in another thread that got me thinking. I remember watching Floyd Mayweather fighting Louie Leija on what I believe was the Morales-Zaragoza undercard (wow…who could’ve imagined known what was to come for both of those guys? Shout out to Bob Arum). I also remember being extremely impressed with the number Mayweather did on Genaro Hernandez. I was still in my teens then. 17 years later, I'm a married man. And this dude is still undefeated. Not a Marciano kind of undefeated either. Even if he had a loss or two, Mayweather’s resume would still trump Rocky’s resume handily. Some would point to fights that could have been made but you can say that about anyone. The fact that he’s remained undefeated in the fights that have been made is ridiculous. Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, a prime Corley, Judah, Gatti, De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Alvarez, etc. etc. That is one hell of a resume. And if he faces and beat Pacquiao well then he can call himself whatever he wants. But in the meantime, looking at it objectively in 2015, where do you think Floyd Mayweather stands in the boxing annals? Top 25? Higher? Lower? What would he need to do in order to stamp himself as a top 10 fighter? Or is that out of the question? To say his resume is awesome in respect to TOP this and that ....... well, that is a weak asS resume when you analyze it carefully and you know it. Floyd fought no greats in their prime. From the list you mentioned, most were either approaching retirement or way past it. Some were not at their best weight, some were weight drained and some were inexperienced. Even if Floyd fights Manny now, it's too late! It had to happen before Dec-2012. After that, its an OK win but for legacy, too late! Nobody is saying that he is not a good fighter. He is but when you look at his resume, there are some big holes when you need to look at it from this perspective!

Pacquiao Oscar Shane Cotto Hatton Jmm Corrales Castillo Judah Gatti Hernendez wow what a resume Now lets subtract the following: How many were out of prime? How many were inactive? How many were drained? How many were injured? How many were inconsistent? How many were green? How many didn't belong or just entered the division just to fight Floyd?

So being picked apart isn't good enough for you? LOL. I just re-watched the fight. It was actually a close fight. Floyd didn't do much and Manny didn't do much. You guys count Manny missing when FLoyd runs as a point. Or you count when Floyd counters with an arm punch that has little affect. Yes Manny was tentative but so was Floyd. If you don't believe me, go re-watch Floyd Sr in the corner. That was not a happy corner.

Somehow, for me, KTFO is not always worse. Frazier and Duran in those fights were indeed annihilated. But they were gutsy as hell performances. Pacquiao's was worse because I hated the fight. All those fights you listed are fights I love. I love watching Tito vs. Bhop. I love Duran laughing and talking back to Hearns as he gets hit in the head. Pacquiao showed no heart, no head, nothing. That's not ATG-like. I thought Calletano against Santa Cruz fought his heart out without winning a round. Isn't that what everyone always loved about Manny? That he always fought like the taxi driver from Ecuador? Felt like he betrayed the memory of himself. They had a game plan. Made it close but the fans were not expecting that game plan from Manny. I'm not even saying that it worked as planned but I'm sure that Floyd's corner was expecting a better outcome as well. I agree. It was a bit of a let down. Can't really blame Manny because I'm sure that he wished that Floyd would stand their and trade but Floyd doens't care if fans spend $100 PPV or $250K ring side seats. Floyd will be Floyd and stink out the joint just as long as he wins.

Exactly when cooler heads prevail people will analyse it and see it wasn't the whitewashing people are making it out to be. Correct. Lots of close rounds. I wished the ref warned Floyd early and often like the ref in the Wladimir fight. Why I find it strange is that Kenny Bayless has reffed Floyd fights enough times to see what he missed in his previous fights. Even then, lots of other tapes to watch to know what Floyd does that is not legal.

Pac's performance against Mayweather was very similar to most guys performance against Mayweather. He was confused and didn't know what to do. He couldn't flurry like he wanted to because he would either get countered or Mayweather wouldn't be there to get hit, and he'd be swinging at air. It wasnt a bad performance by Pacquiao , it was a great performance by Mayweather. Too much holding by Floyd and some other stuff which did enough to change the outcome of this fight. Remember that this fight was actually very close. Except for the 4th round where it was clearly a Manny round, most rounds were close. If the ref gave Floyd hard warnings from the start, Floyd would not do what he did all night long and that could have been the difference. Also, if Manny had gained more confidence and FLoyd lost some confidence because the ref would allow more in fighting, this fight could have changed even more than what I'm saying.

I just re-watched the fight. The fight was actually a very close fight. Some of you guys are watching it the wrong way. Everyone was expecting Manny to do what he used to do in the past. He didn't so he automatically was losing rounds in your book. A lot of those rounds were close and just because Manny missed or didn't connect as often as we are used to seeing him connect doesn't mean that he didn't win his share of rounds. Manny's team had a game plan and they followed it. It was a close enough fight for them to not change it up. So they didn't. I think that their game plan was wrong for several reasons but the fight was close. Floyd won some close rounds yet some here are talking like as if we saw Floyd dominate which he didn't.

Stop the propaganda and brainwashing please. Mayweather performance wasn't impressive. Agreed. Just because Floyd won doesn't mean he was much better. It was a close fight where both were tentative.

I've tried. Honest to God I've tried. Actually, he was right and you were so wrong and so was the other poster. If you are being honest like you said, then you have a problem!

None of the drivel you posted answers my question. He weighed in under 154 for Trout. Explain how that indicates he had issues making 154. You don't know what the poster I quoted meant, so why the **** are you getting involved in the convo? Oh, ADP02's posting history tells me that those posters are right. You are in some kind of tunnel vision with that it seems. You asked a question that was precisely responded to you by ADP. All he really said was when Canelo struggled with 154 and even told you it was AFTER the Floyd fight. Still, you either pretended or ignored what he said and you said that he does not know what he was talking about. That was my point with you. That poster was not wrong. You actually said the same thing as him, as far as your question. All he did was answer your question. My point was also with the other poster who brought up an article of 2 years prior to the fight and calling people idiots for not agreeing with him that it was valid still valid 2 years later.

Read the origin of the conversation before you get involved next time... Explain to me how He brought Alvarez down to 152 knowing he had issues making 154. I'll wait. That really does not matter. Where was the other poster wrong? You even agreed with other posters concerning ADP. On what did you agree on? As for your question, there were discussions here about Canelo's struggles prior to the Floyd fight. He ballooned to around 172 against Trout and was having stamina issues. So that could have been the point or perhaps comments made prior to the fight being signed by Canelo and his team. There was a lot of talk coming from them that they can't do a CW without having issues making weight but only that poster can tell you what they meant by that statement. As for the 152 CW and this may also answer your question, you should be listening to Floyd's own words. "CWs are used to drain your opponent". If you take someone's word then you need to take Floyd's.

In that case, tell me when exactly Canelo had an issue making 154. I'll wait. One response was to the poster saying he was in the right because Canelo said something 2 years before the fight that he had with Floyd. He went on calling people idiots that didn't get on the same page as him. So who was right? Should we take Canelo's word because he said something 2 years before on his weight? Here is the link: http://www.boxingscene.com/saul-alvarez-ill-drop-150-floyd-mayweather-jr--46563 Canelo struggled to make 154, and so they had a special weight for him against Angulo for example and it was the fight after Floyd but I'm sure you knew that already. You asked him, when Canelo struggled to make 154. He responded by telling you when. You responded to this post above and again, he actually had it there to read yet you responded back with saying "Angulo fight happened after the Floyd fight". Well, if you read it carefully, he said just that.

Exactly WHEN did Team Excusiao inform the NSAC of his "injury"? BEFORE the fight. Just pretend instead of Manny it was Floyd. It would make sense right away for you. No proof required. All you would say is "I heard it from Floyd so it must be true"

Xylocaine isn't banned anywhere and isn't on the WADA list. He took it prior to what fight? 10 min mark

After what we know now about Floyd, we need a special category for someone like Floyd. I rank him #IV.

it's hard to rank cheaters. would he be as good if he didn't cheat? probably not and he cheated in more than one way.

Pacquaio was too much of a gentleman and a good sport to use the injury excuse when he lost to Marquez. However, when he got his ass whipped by Mayweather, his gentlemanly manners went out the window. The said thing is that there are some Pac worshippers on this site who are stupid enough to believe this! After what you wrote in that first paragraph, please look in the mirror. The dumbest part is a Floyd fan thinking that relatively speaking "Floyd whipped Manny" and use the Marquez fight example in the same sentence.

I think this is also a question that deserves to be asked. Larryxxx, why don't you start the thread :lol1:: "Honest question do you think Floyd was masking PEDs since .........?" or "Honest question do you think Floyd was taking PEDs since .........?" or "Honest question do you think Floyd was taking IVs and/or something else to get an extra advantage over his opponents since .........?"

After what you wrote in that first paragraph, please look in the mirror. The dumbest part is a Floyd fan thinking that relatively speaking "Floyd whipped Manny" and use the Marquez fight example in the same sentence. Sigh. Don't pull strawman tactics considering my last post was particularly and empirically based on Chino, not Marquez. If you want to talk Marquez we can talk Marquez and relating to Floyd. But if you want to debate why Chino's initial Majority Decision overrules Pac's Unanimous Decision then let's debate. Don't run away and bring up Marquez... I already told you Floyd beat the man that beat the man. I admit your attempt is a good sneaky one... as if Floyd's boxing lesson on Marquez wasn't as good as putting Pac to sleep. lol. They were both great fights from a boxing fans perspective! My initial post that you responded to was on Marquez/Floyd not Maidana. Still, I said what I said about Maidana since you brought it up. FLoyd got the Nevada judges to give him the win. What a surprise. To bring up the version of Marquez FLoyd fought is a joke and still, Floyd was not taking any chances against the guy that was fighting at 130 about a year before. Marquez said it best: "If that fight is proposed and the conditions are acceptable, then of course . But we all know how things are done when fighting Mayweather in Las Vegas. In that city the officials protect him, let him do everything. Fighting him there is a burden," "Look, do you know how Mayweather can be beaten? Only by knockout, and how can you knock out an opponent who does not want to fight, who doesn't throw punches, and hits you with a jab and you may have won the round but they still give it to him?" :wave:

It's second nature for loving Fanatic Pac fans in finding reasoning but... The reality and the sad truth is that Marcos Maidana did WAY more than Manny Pacquiao. Maidana literally give it all for the fight of his life. How many times did Chino get Floyd on the ropes vs Pacquiao? Rope-a-dope ? How about punch stats for Chino vs Pac? Also Chino if the 2nd fight if I'm not mistaken landed a menacing overhand right straight to Floyd face and he ATE IT! Floyd was stunned. Had it not been the late rounds Floyd would've been in trouble...perhaps clinging to the longest....Floyd rarely ever gets hit like that throughout his span which is why he is immune to brutal landings. That's my opinion. As Floyd sat down on his stool he was still feeling that shock. Watch the tape. He was dazed. Maidana should have gotten a better score but its FLoyd and Vegas so its to be expected that Floyd gets rounds that should go to the opponent. So you are agreeing with me. :wave: There are plenty of close rounds where Manny could have and in some of them should have gotten the round. Going by memory, rounds 2,3,7,12 could have gone to Manny. Watch those rounds. You give 2 of those rounds and it becomes a draw. 3 Manny wins. You give 1 only and its a 115-113 fight. In the Marquez fight, you can give all the rounds except 2 to Manny but at the end, there is no disputing who won. Go do a poll and let me know which one was more convincing a win. The one your hero won in an uneventful fashion or the Marquez win. I expect a landslide!!! :wave:

floyd gets caught cheating but larry is pretending manny is a cheater still. fanboys what else can you say Floyd fans trying to deflect. They must be crying that their hero is now seen in a different light. Floyd tries to get an advantage in every fight which is ironic considering what he would say why he avoided Manny for so many years "All I want is a fair fight" What a joke Floyd turned out to be. .

Or better yet, you create a WADA based thread, and you ask everyone with endless pages going, yet not one soul gives reasoning as to why Top Rank refused WADA style testing. But as Dan Rafael said on ESPN, that Manny wasn't obligated to draw blood under the rules of the NSAC. Those were his exact words. Then the thread dies down because cowardice prevails! They bring up Floyd. It may seem like an X vs Y scenario. But there's too many on Top Rank over the years that your questions in starting a thread would have no substance against Top Rank. How do I know this? Because I'm creating a documentary on it! Manny at least based it on experience of the Morales fight in that he gave blood close to the fight and he said he believed that made him feel weaker. Still, Manny never said that he didn't want to do more testing. Just didn't like Floyd's accusing Manny of taking PEDs and bringing up new rules ...... it became a negotiation, its not really Olympic testing, got it? Furthermore, we have Ellerbe and Floyd backing up Manny's statements now. "Giving blood dehydrated Floyd" :wave: .

yeah but in boxing there's a term called ''the man who beat the man.'' Floyd vs Manny was a close fight that had little action and was boring and the one who had the highlight moments was actually Manny punching Floyd. Many close rounds where the judges gave it to Floyd. The other fight, while Manny was winning, Marquez had one of those moments that you will see once in every decade. That was a devstating KO. Floyd was tentative the whole freaking fight against Manny. His own father said that he was fighting scared. BTW - At the time, Marquez had no business fighting at 147 but Floyd took advantage of Marquez wanting the fight ......

The most logical explanation, and the one that clowns seem to willfully ignore, for whatever foolish reason, is that Floyd Mayweather overtrained for the Pacquiao fight, to the point that his camp thought it prudent to request the IV of saline and vitamins (USADA has already stated that they were present to draw samples from Floyd, before and after the IV). Not that difficult Actually its not logical at all. Floyd didn't struggle making weight. In fact they admitted that its easy for Floyd to make 147. So if this is not an issue and being that its May 1st and you have been tapering off your workouts for a while now, there is no reason to be dehydrated. NONE! The experienced gym rat named Floyd was basically preparing his body with proper food and fluids as the fight approached. So lets be real here. Floyd was not dehydrated to the point that an IV was necessary. He was not doing no serious training the day before the fight.

There's no proof that Floyd used PEDs. I'm sure it's possible. I'm sure many, if not most successful fighters use them. I just don't think Floyd needs anything, with his skill level and work ethic. The boy can move. It's in him, body and spirit. I'm sure he would benefit from ways to artificially extend his training and increase his endurance, but the fact is, he's always had a skill level that dwarfed the competition. If you've got that, you don't PEDs. Not just yet anyway. You just pointed out why we should be thinking otherwise. You said his work ethic was always great and so on. So then why all this shady business? Why was he dehydrated on the day before the fight? See, it just does not add up YET those were the silly excuses that FLoyd used. That and blood and urine drained him. Even though Floyd didn't give blood for like 1.5 weeks! and giving urine does not drain you. Only a desperate Floyd fan would believe all that. So why lie? PEDS baby!

The thing is that Floyd did it against the opponents that he thought were threats. Not only clinching. Its elbowing, forearms, SUCKER PUNCHES, head locks, running, burning the clock, ..... and holding. Also before the fight, Floyd will try to get as many advantages as possible while trying to remove the opponents advantages. Examples, Maidana's gloves, Canelo's CW, using IVs, ......... Also you can add what Berto just said "Floyd's legacy will always be questioned ..... Because he played it safe"

People need to back away from the crack pipe. Floyd doesn't need PEDs to beat Berto and s___t. Floyd doesn't need PEDs to beat tiny a__ pacquaio, either. Floyd doesn't need PEDs, period. There's no proof that he used PEDs, and there's no reason for him to use anything to win fights with his skills, like he always has done; so until somebody proves otherwise, it's a pointless assumption. It's like saying somebody is guilty until proven innocent. That is some soviet boo-cheet Lance too said it was "HARD WORK" that made him win and that everyone who thought otherwise was on the crack pipe. People were scared to bring Lance down. People are not too hasty to bring Floyd down too. Some are tentative with their wording because they are scared to get sued. Some are scared that their fat checks will stop coming in from Floyd's pal, Al Haymon and at the times, not be part of Floyd the Nevada cash cow jackpot. When things are shady, it becomes more than "pointless assumptions". If they stayed with that, Lance would never get caught.

then ran and held a little congressman with one arm...lol So true. Floyd and his team laughed about Canelo's weaknesses and took advantage of taking away his ONLY advantage by demanding a CW. I remember Floyd Sr laughing in an interview saying that he hoped that Canelo's game plan was to attack FLoyd because Canelo has stamina issues plus of course the CW will make that issue even worse. Its like when they fought rusty as nails old Mosley. Their game plan was taking that all into account. Mosley struggled and gassed out.

He stood right in front of the bigger man and even walked him down most of the fight...Post and discuss Is that what you say when you see most of FLoyd's fights? "Oh, that guy is standing right in front of Floyd, is backing up Floyd and walking him down?" :wave: So the truth is that Floyd fans wished that Floyd was more offensive and less like Floyd. Floyd fans actually hate that Floyd is always thinking "health comes first". I knew this from a long time ago but thanks for admitting it. BTW - Floyd fans like to exaggerate what Floyd does. If someone has not watched the fight and read some posts here, they will think that Floyd was really walking Canelo down all night long and beating him up. That is not what happened. Floyd fought a drained Canelo. They said before the fight that Canelo has serious issues going into the fight. From inexperience(on the green side), weight, flat-footed, slow-work rate, terrible stamina, ....... and his game plan was to out box FLoyd. .