I say yes.
I know styles make fights. But if we're counting fights by guys who'll make the HOF... and are, say, close to past their prime or slightly past their prime... wasn't this performance the worst?
I'll say De la Hoya's vs. Pacman was worse. But most everyone ranks Manny considerably higher than Oscar. Duran never looked the way Pacman did last night. Duran was past his prime when he fought a bigger, athletic and hungry Davey Moore and showed why athletic and good are not the same as ATG. Tyson(IMO) looked better vs. Holyfield. Bernard at 50 never put on such a weakass show(you could say, 'What about vs. Kovalev' and I'd say what other fighter took a bigger risk than Bernard that fight, recently? Bernard is not that similar to Manny, I know. But Bhop has fought, I think courageously, past his prime and managed to find other ways of 'doing it' than he did when he was younger vs. Mercado, RJJ, etc.
I think other responses to this question could go along the lines of.. 'What about Kosta's last fight? What about Ali vs. Spinks?' I think Kosta is not ranked as highly as Manny(even though Tszyu is a personal favorite) and Ali was older and way more past his prime than Manny is now.
Somehow the magnitude of this fight seems to have escaped Manny. It's not just that Manny can only throw to the cranium. It's not just that being undersized caught up to him. He put on a strangely unATG performance and his ATG wins against Morales and Barrera will not be remembered like his moving underwater, sleepy as @#$% performance last night will be remembered. Manny is, basically, tied in greatness to Floyd. But all people will remember is last night's fight.
It was the worst performance of two boxers in a fight of that magnitude.
this right here, both were unimpressive despite the hype
Floyd didn't school Pac, Pac didn't throw the way he used to be because of Floyd's jab which purpose is only to give him distance and not to damage Pac
Pac didn't do his homework, i think the gameplan is not the problem since it is about volume punches, Pac is NOT THROWING regardless, which is too bad because Pac is landing his counter lefts
Exactly when cooler heads prevail people will analyse it and see it wasn't the whitewashing people are making it out to be.
Correct. Lots of close rounds. I wished the ref warned Floyd early and often like the ref in the Wladimir fight. Why I find it strange is that Kenny Bayless has reffed Floyd fights enough times to see what he missed in his previous fights. Even then, lots of other tapes to watch to know what Floyd does that is not legal.
outlanding an ATG by only 3-5 punches is what u guys are so proud of???
of course what do u expect when the other wants to please the crowd and the other just want to run and win???
floyds running performance lost a lot of boxing fans last night
trust me there will be more running styles copied after last night
floyds style of fighting will be used and learned more
Too much holding by Floyd and some other stuff which did enough to change the outcome of this fight.
Remember that this fight was actually very close. Except for the 4th round where it was clearly a Manny round, most rounds were close. If the ref gave Floyd hard warnings from the start, Floyd would not do what he did all night long and that could have been the difference.
Also, if Manny had gained more confidence and FLoyd lost some confidence because the ref would allow more in fighting, this fight could have changed even more than what I'm saying.
Agreed. Just because Floyd won doesn't mean he was much better. It was a close fight where both were tentative.
Exactly when cooler heads prevail people will analyse it and see it wasn't the whitewashing people are making it out to be.
Stop the propaganda and brainwashing please.
Mayweather performance wasn't impressive.
Agreed. Just because Floyd won doesn't mean he was much better. It was a close fight where both were tentative.
This fight was definitely an epic fail. WW's who threw 400 punches in a fight. Landed less than 100? Smh. The most disappointing fight in boxing history for the hype it received.
Somehow, for me, KTFO is not always worse. Frazier and Duran in those fights were indeed annihilated. But they were gutsy as hell performances.
Pacquiao's was worse because I hated the fight. All those fights you listed are fights I love. I love watching Tito vs. Bhop. I love Duran laughing and talking back to Hearns as he gets hit in the head. Pacquiao showed no heart, no head, nothing. That's not ATG-like. I thought Calletano against Santa Cruz fought his heart out without winning a round. Isn't that what everyone always loved about Manny? That he always fought like the taxi driver from Ecuador? Felt like he betrayed the memory of himself.
They had a game plan. Made it close but the fans were not expecting that game plan from Manny. I'm not even saying that it worked as planned but I'm sure that Floyd's corner was expecting a better outcome as well.
I agree. It was a bit of a let down. Can't really blame Manny because I'm sure that he wished that Floyd would stand their and trade but Floyd doens't care if fans spend $100 PPV or $250K ring side seats. Floyd will be Floyd and stink out the joint just as long as he wins.
How about guys that get KTFO? How is that not worse than getting beat on points?
Duran got absolutely destroyed by Hearns. Joe Frazier annihilated by Foreman. Tito Trinidad getting schooled BADLY before getting stopped by Hopkins. Etc etc etc. There are tons of examples of ATGs getting their butts kicked.
Somehow, for me, KTFO is not always worse. Frazier and Duran in those fights were indeed annihilated. But they were gutsy as hell performances.
Pacquiao's was worse because I hated the fight. All those fights you listed are fights I love. I love watching Tito vs. Bhop. I love Duran laughing and talking back to Hearns as he gets hit in the head. Pacquiao showed no heart, no head, nothing. That's not ATG-like. I thought Calletano against Santa Cruz fought his heart out without winning a round. Isn't that what everyone always loved about Manny? That he always fought like the taxi driver from Ecuador? Felt like he betrayed the memory of himself.
Pac's performance against Mayweather was very similar to most guys performance against Mayweather. He was confused and didn't know what to do. He couldn't flurry like he wanted to because he would either get countered or Mayweather wouldn't be there to get hit, and he'd be swinging at air.
It wasnt a bad performance by Pacquiao , it was a great performance by Mayweather.
Too much holding by Floyd and some other stuff which did enough to change the outcome of this fight.
Remember that this fight was actually very close. Except for the 4th round where it was clearly a Manny round, most rounds were close. If the ref gave Floyd hard warnings from the start, Floyd would not do what he did all night long and that could have been the difference.
Also, if Manny had gained more confidence and FLoyd lost some confidence because the ref would allow more in fighting, this fight could have changed even more than what I'm saying.
Pac's performance against Mayweather was very similar to most guys performance against Mayweather. He was confused and didn't know what to do. He couldn't flurry like he wanted to because he would either get countered or Mayweather wouldn't be there to get hit, and he'd be swinging at air.
It wasnt a bad performance by Pacquiao , it was a great performance by Mayweather.
I just re-watched the fight. The fight was actually a very close fight.
Some of you guys are watching it the wrong way. Everyone was expecting Manny to do what he used to do in the past. He didn't so he automatically was losing rounds in your book.
A lot of those rounds were close and just because Manny missed or didn't connect as often as we are used to seeing him connect doesn't mean that he didn't win his share of rounds.
Manny's team had a game plan and they followed it. It was a close enough fight for them to not change it up. So they didn't.
I think that their game plan was wrong for several reasons but the fight was close. Floyd won some close rounds yet some here are talking like as if we saw Floyd dominate which he didn't.
Including slightly past prime ATGS:
Duran-Hearns, Trinidad-Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr-Tarver II, Lewis-Tyson, De La Hoya-Pacquiao, Frazier-Foreman, Patterson-Liston, Toney-Roy Jones Jr, Leonard-Norris,
Styles make fights. Pacquaio has been defeated decisively only twice since his rise and both times to the best counter punchers of this era and future hall of famers. The worst "in prime" non-knockout defeat I have witnessed was Tito vs Wright, where Wright won every round and Tito was 100% neutralized.