KingOfBox

Berto beats him... not because he is better because he isn't. But because boxing throws curveballs at us all the time.. Just ask Khan, Ortiz, or Juanma.. Berto's chin sucks but lets not forget he can put ANYONE down and out in a heartbeat with a punchers chance, including Pacquiao. If nothing else... I think Berto is up there p4p in punching power. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

On transcending the sport of boxing alone, an argument can be made for him already being the GOAT. I know, I know! I'm a "Gayweather" fan... so what? The man has THE most profitable fight EVER under his belt among many others that top the 1 mil mark. His risk vs reward ratio is ALWAYS on his opponents' side. He has fought EVERYONE deemed competition save Pacman (and we can't count that one out yet as they are both still active and anything is possible). Cotto, Mosley, DLH, Marquez, Hatton, Judah, Castillo twice, Corrales, Ortiz, Gatti, Hernandez. Undefeated. Multiple weightclass champion and Lineal WW. I think him AND Pacman can make a legitimate case for some of the best ever. I mean, even Ali lost sloppily... Sugar Ray got beat by a slower, weaker, less talented (not by much), smaller man. Sugar Ray Rob lost multiple times... so why can't either Floyd or Pac make a case??? Based on skill and skill alone, Floyd is the most talented and applies his craft into his fights better than anyone else in the history of the game. He can beat you at his game OR yours. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

It's not only who you face but when you face them If that is your angle... then Pacquiao over DLH, Mosley, Cotto, Hatton mean nothing DLH was over the hill. Mosley came off a loss and a draw Cotto looked vulnerable against Clottey Hatton came off a loss to Floyd and meaningless win over Paulie. Floyd beat a fresh Oscar at 154 Mosley after he demolished Margarito Cotto after dominating wins vs Margarito and Mayorga Hatton was undefeated and confident. And an older version of JMM schooled Pac while Floyd aced a younger version. Done.:bottle:

Exposed? Not really... But his patience, focus, and most importantly RHYTHM were a little rough around the edges. Rosado's reach, distance and footwork allowed him to disrupt GGG's rhythm often. I think GGG trusted his punch placement and output and knew Rosado wouldn't be able to hold up at the end of his firepower. Realistically, Rosado was more stylistically competitive than physically. Looking for big things from both men in the future.. good test while it lasted.

Khan has a better chin that Sylvester Stallone

Well at least you try to take up the mantle and give some facts. I give that to you. Furthermore, after your clowning last night, you are back for more abuse and showing some backbone. So you're evidently not completely spineless. Floyd should send you a check for $10.50. Ok. What you are failing to acknowledge is the polling. This is not the first poll that prefers Pac over Floyd as ATG. This is not some freak event. The boxing public thinks Pac is a greater ATG than Floyd. Why? This is the question, and I believe this thread has addressed that question. Your facts simply don't make a difference. Because in the end, Floyd doesn't have the numbers for greatness. He would have done better to have fought like a warrior for the glory, even if it meant losing a fight or two. Pac got the glory. Floyd did not get the numbers. What glory did Pac get?? Canvas glory... He is a google images HOFer though.. just type in "Pacquiao and Simba", or "Pacquiao and Cars bed", or "Pacquiao iPhone funny"... When Boxingscene has their own belt or becomes a sanctioning body people might take your "angry PacFan" poll serious. With your lil 150 vote that somehow accounts for "all-time greatness in official pacquiao fanbase questionnaire". Hahaha.

No. I'm afraid you're not capable of teaching anybody because you are incapable of learning. Let's talk the numbers of greatness. 87-0 and 37 title fights is a good place to start. Floyd will be lucky to get half of that. So the issue: Is defending the undefeated goose-egg worth it? The polling showing Pac is a higher regarded ATG than Floyd would seem to indicate that it is not. This is not a matter of fanbased loyalty. This is statistics. If Floyd's goal is to make as much money as possible without retiring with a brain injury...then he is accomplishing that goal. If his goal is greatness in the sport...then he is failing beyond any doubt. Aren't you tired of getting roasted by all of us on your own post?? I just showed you proof! COMPUBOX!!!!!!!! You fail at life. You fail at being an undercover BIASED PacFan, fail at analysis, fail at comprehension. You think that by somehow "attacking" my general perception that Floyd is a bad SOB that you are somehow discrediting Floyd. Problem is you still have to try to discredit Floyd... Nobody has to try to discredit Manny... A little old "washed up" Mexican did that. Funny how you absolutely refuse to even MENTION MARQUEZ!!!!! BEST OF TRIED TO IMPLY MARQUEZ USED PEDS!!!! :bryce:

"Racially insecure" is your excuse?? LOL The lesson from post 149 is this: Defending the goose-egg is not doing Floyd any good at all. Not if we're talking about true greatness. He could pick and piddle his way to 50-0...it wouldn't matter. He would be better remembered by the glory he accumulates for himself. And, he isn't going to do that. Hence...Pacman's popularity. Pfffff lesson? This lame thinks he is teaching. I'm the one teaching here son. Pacquiao is an A fighter.... Mayweather is A+. According to statistics from compubox as written on espn ( http://m.espn.go.com/extra/boxing/story?storyId=7780088). Floyd has the best plus/minus ratio of all time. Plus/minus Floyd is +30... Pac is +4.7. The only number he was edged in was conn percentage by Louis and Lewis. .Learn THAT, "intelligent". Look at SRL, Marvelous, Duran, Hearns, Ali's numbers in total comparison. Do your hw in order not to get embarrassed publicly like your idol

THIS is a pungent comment. Again; 2 routes to greatness...numbers and glory. The guys that have both are up for consideration as GOAT. Floyd has neither numbers or glory. Pacman has the glory. Thus, Pacman is a more highly regarded ATG. end of story Sounds like "biased nonsense" to me. What a girl dude... Lol. Fighting everyone is cool and all but losing while doing both isn't. Thus explained by what happens after these "losses". Retirement, evander Holyfield syndrome etc... They have both fought everyone except eachother. You can't blame one or the other for both of them simply not getting it done. Let's not get started on Bob Arum

The same can be said for Oscar 10 years ago. Your problem is that you assume this poster has some worship thing going with Pacquiao. You are wrong. That kind of thinking comes from you and your Floydian dreamstate. This thread is derived from the prior polling that shows stronger ATG support for Pac than Floyd. Now explain that without going into another fanboy hissy fit. You mean the DLH that hadn't fought at WW in 7 years and was eating ice chips prior to the fight. Yea man that Oscar was intimidating.. so was that Cotto who looked smaller than Pacquiao in the ring. Floyd fought them both when they were full more dangerous bigger fighters. Let's conveniently forget Floyd blanked Marquez(and yes I know Floyd tipped over the scale, tell me more about catchweights and who the king of THAT is). Besides PacFan, why bother arguing with you? Pacquiao is probably still sleeping.

This was the point of the thread. How can Floyd have a better record, but Pacquiao be considered a greater fighter? It is what it is. Pac's reputation is stronger than Floyd's. Not according to PPV numbers or earnings. Hmmmm or the current p4p rankings. Or their record in TITLE fights. You are just a butt hurt undercover *******. You sound like Skip Bayless in that rant.. Pacquiao has to own that loss, he earned it, and his legacy already took a shot. Cry all you want or fantasize what you'd like... Intelligent guy you :bottle:

I enjoy reading the exchanges/posts here although I had been shy for so long now - to dip my fingers on the keys again to join the conversations. Both mp and fm are atgs. who is ahead in the poll is subjective as voters do have different perspectives. i voted for mp even though i believe fm is generally, a better boxer. statistics tell tales and more...not to digress...just to indicate how i view atg issues...i consider ali the goat...and ali may not in the eyes of others that great Finally someone with some honest objective sense on here... Thank you for typing

Look, thats the problem! You got it from both sides, Your a Pac fan correct? Me I luv boxing, people are gonna troll to get a rise. My thing is you have to realise Pac is good but, this resume is padded just like Mayweathers. I don't know if your one of the blind Pac fans that will say stupid $h!t, like Mayweather fights old fighters, when he fought De La Hoya a year before Pac, AND at Oscars actaul weight of 154, (yeah because he had to. Oscar was the golden ticket then). He fought Cotto after Pac, but at Cotto's current weight of 154, when Pac didn't want anything to do with Cotto at 154. I don't even discuss all that ducking bull****, because no one really knows whats going behind the scenes. IMO they both are first ballot HFO's no matter what Much respect to THIS post

"You fail at life." ??? LOL Your invective betrays your insecurity. And you are insecure because you simply cannot make a dent in the argument of this thread. You cannot argue with the polling. You cannot argue with the numbers. These are facts. If the facts were different, you would find me making a different argument..possibly one in Floyd's favor. I have no issue with anybody saying or implying that Floyd's talent is great. I would agree with the premise that his potential was almost limitless. But compubox numbers mean nothing when we are talking about greatness. I am absolutely sure there is one perfect fight out there, according to compubox. Or say, as I would imagine, there is a 2 second, 1rst round, one punch KO out there. Is that fighter the GOAT??? What we are talking about here is greatness in the sport. Floyd doesn't have the numbers. He'll be 75 years old at this pace, before he has the numbers. I think its a reasonable assumption that Floyd will never have the numbers. Now...does a fighter like Holyfield need the numbers to be an all time great? Does a fighter like Foreman need the numbers to be an all time great? Does a fighter like Pacman need the numbers to be an all time great? NO NO and NO. Because they accumulate their accolades thru GLORY. Two different routes to greatness: Numbers and Glory. Floyd has neither. This is his problem. Or both.. http://images.picturesdepot.com/photo/f/floyd_mayweather_jr_with_belts-22035.jpg Haha you're so lame.. Pac is still sleeping... Wake up Pacman. Wake up.

This is the most exposing post of all your posts on this thread. You simply don't get it. You know what? I think you are worn out. Go to bed, bro. The body shots have taken the sense out of you completely. Don't bother to get up off your stool. Concede defeat, take the money, and go home. This fight is over. You are a credit to the Floydian fanboy nation though. Not much talent, but alot of heart. Cool story bro.. lack of facts and stats. Your boy didn't even make it to his "stool". Hahaha. Body shots? Wth are you talking about? BTW. He also lost the biggest fight of his career. Nothing cool about thAT. Keep posting bro. And keep waiting on thAT 0 to go. Bahahahaha. He already has money and greatness... He also happens to be the "main page" icon on this website.. Manny will continue to be "feed back" :crucified:

87 wins in a row. 13 year undefeated streak (holds the record). Most title defenses in history. Most title wins in history. Most title fights in history. Tied with Joe Louis for most title wins by KO (21). Ended career with 101 victories and 87 KOs. And you know what? Julio Cesar Chavez suffered from a couple of bad stoppages in his latter career. It doesn't matter. He the GOAT (certainly in the argument). These are the numbers of real greatness. Floyd not going there, bro. Not even close. He out of time. So every little bit may seem important now. But, 10 years from now? Forgotten. Just like Oscar. But, keep on spewing. What Pac gives us are exciting fights. He gives us his all. This is the difference between Pac and Floyd. This is why Pac is a higher regarded fighter. Since you wouldn't answer the question, I answered it for you. Pffff. You forgot to mention that Floyd would beat the brakes off of a PRIME JCC. You are making assertions that no one believes except you. As our colleague posted above, Floyd is favored in that fight because he is better in the eyes of every expert. People just became enamored with the PERCEIVED "danger" aspect of a Pacquiao fight. But in the last 2 yrs, that notion, along with Pacquiao's skills started deteriorating. I honestly AGREE that Pacquiao's resume is impressive and I love his activity, both in punch output and in his twice a yr outings. Pacquiao IS more exciting than Floyd. But much of that has to do with the fact that he is more hitable and creates more drama because he is in more bloody fights. Floyd is a masterful boxer that hits and doesn't get hit often. Exciting doesn't make you GREAT. HOFer Gatti is the prime example. Guys like Katsidis are plenty exciting. But to be great you have to have ELITE skills to back up an awesome resume. As far as skills go... Floyd is unmatched right now. And is unblemished. And it drives you insane.

The polling is not irrelevent, although you wish it were. LOL You can't wish away the facts. Thats the Floydian dreamstate at its best. Bottomline: No Numbers. No Glory. Floyd fading away right before our eyes. Just like Oscar. Current or Former Champs faced: Floyd 17... Pacquiao17 Record in TITLE fights: Floyd 21-0... Pacquiao 16-2-2 hmm Same amount of champs faced. Different record in TITLE fights. Tell me more about how that makes Pacquiao better. Haha or atleast try PPV sales not even close AND Floyd shares record. Floyd...Undefeated, Pacquiao... Defeated Floyd is only the REASON HBO 24/7 started.. no big deal. Floyd fights Oscar and breaks 2 mill... Pac fights him and does 1.something Top earner in boxing today Floyd... 2nd.... Pacquiao ...now you were saying about Floyd not being great/popular/better at everything except sleeping and KOing people than Pacquiao???? ...i'll wait

Not even close. Floyd has never gone sleepy time on his face. Undefeated having fought in about 21 title fights (not including Mosley as it wasn't a title fight cuz Floyd didn't care about the belt, it was a pride fight). The real question should be is Pacquiao even equal to Marquez at this point. When Marquez put him out, he took everything from Pacman. the entire world had to pick their jaws up from the floor. No question Floyd was always better than Pacquiao. And at this point honestly I believe after how the Four Fights transpired and how Marquez overcame all those odds with his incredible heart(older, slower, initially smaller in 1-3), that he is now also on top of Pacman. Pacman had a great career, won 10 titles, fought any and every... But his time is over and no one will ever forget the manner in which he was destroyed on Dec 8th 2012.

We had an intellectual discussion going, and then you came and shared this with us. Thank you for your treasured contribution of biased nonsense. Your typing is precise and your spelling grades an A. Good for you! What bias? Its not my fault he went to sleep. You asked I answered... If your conversation is so "intelligent", why did you ask such a dumb @$$ question? Of course getting embarrassingly KTFO affects your legacy. Just ask Hatton, Jones, Taylor, etc how their careers worked out. One thing is to get KO'd early in your career in which you can adjust (as Pac did), change something or simply move on from "getting caught". But towards the back end of your prime by an older fighter who you are more talented than but has your number.

Here is a perfect example of Floydian hypocrisy. At its most basic level, its a refusal to acknowledge the facts. Why do people think, "anyone but Floyd"? Mannie's "huge following" must be about something "racial" or "ignorant". LOL Could it have something to do with what this thread has proven? ^^^^ Don't bother with this chick. She's on her cycle. Lol. Trying to make Floyd look bad by posting irrelevant things that don't change reality. Haha. No matter how much you TRY to hate on Floyd. It won't pick Manny off the canvas and play it out differently. I think it's time we grew up lil guy. Addition by subtraction ain't gonna workkkkk. Some of us are actually aware of real life

"You forgot to mention that Floyd would beat the brakes off of a PRIME JCC." This statement, my friend, is a symptom of your disease. The only reason prime Chavez didn't fight Floyd and destroy him in the cradle is because Floyd ducked him by intentionally being born too late. You cannot argue with the numbers. Floyd's obsession with the goose-egg has become a detriment to his career. As the polling has shown, Floyd would have been better off going for the glory. See post 149, above. :omfg: @ this herb thinking his "poll" is some kind of official status. Bahahahaha! This poll is like a sh!% sandwich without the bread. It's just sh@&!!!! Haha

My answer was given in the form of an example from another era. If you really want a long, drawn out response that you could see yourself if you just looked at each other's resume then okay, here goes... Pacquiao came from nothing. Floyd was an Olympic athlete. Pacquiao had to work his way up from the bottom, whereas Floyd turned pro with a rich backing in the form of US fans of boxing and people high up in the sport willing to give him a hand to the top because really they wanted a piece of him due to his successful amateur career. This clearly means that Floyd had it easier right off the bat. Pacquiao had to go to Thailand to fight a Thai for his first title shot. Floyd fought for his Super Featherweight title in his city of residence. Pacquiao took the fight with Ledwaba on two weeks notice. Pre-2008, Pacquiao had big wins against Morales x2 and Barrera x2. Mayweather, though, did also have wins that were just as big in that same time frame in the form of Corrales, Judah, De La Hoya and Hatton. Again, I'll state that Pacquiao's career didn't start in '08. I know he wasn't an ATG before then, but there's no doubting he was great. The wins since then have helped add to his legacy, rather than define it. It's better him beating world class fighters in any form than pretending to be retired, IMO anyway. Hopefully this reply will suffice, Goldie. Fighting in Thailand or on 2 weeks notice has nothing to do with resume. Its an excuse. He was right you didn't answer the question until the very end here. I can agree that Floyd is far from the most active fighter but this still doesn't detract from his RESUME. ACTIVITY doesn't equal RESUME. Also having more financial backing just shows that he had people scouting him early on. "Pretending to be retired" or "protecting a goose egg" doesn't mean anything when you beat: Hernandez, Castillo, Corrales, Gatti, Judah, DLH, Mosley, Hatton, Marquez, Cotto. I think realistically, Pacquiao has a slightly better resume. BUT he has been in wars, tied, lost and been KO'd. Floyd has been in MAYBE two fights in which the result was in doubt. Castillo 1 and when Mosley rocked him in round 2. That is IT. For Pacquiao: Torrecampo, Singsurat, Ledwaba, Morales, Marquez x 4. Overall, Floyd has been dominant while Pac has been also great but has had several fights lost or in doubt. The result is clear when Floyd fights except for once in is whole career. Not even the SLIGHTLY better resume can top dominance

He dominated everyone he has faced... Arum is the King of justifying why Floyd "could" have problems with Pacman... Floyd is the best thinker in the sport and figures EVERYONE out. Pacquiao has speed and power but often gets baffled and confused by less talented fighters that he would easily dominate if he were smarter in the ring. JMM and Morales are HOFers but Manny should easily dominate them with his skillset. However, JMM consistently makes Pacquiao look bad and ordinary every time out... even though he is older, smaller, slower, and doesn't hit as hard. JMM is much smarter than Pacquiao. Floyd is fine... why does everyone worry about "flaws" of someone who has never lost and then glorify someone who has lost thrice as if we haven't seen his weaknesses. Manny is great but Floyd is greater... plain and simple

Honestly... I'm a huge Floyd fan but even I think that he would struggle with a big gash. He has never been exposed to that level of damage and I am not sure how he would take it mentally... I remember watching the Calzaghe-Jones bout and seeing how dramatically the gash affected Roy who had never been cut in his career. I know he was washed up even in that fight but he did have a knockdown and much confidence until he started getting out-hustled and suffered that cut. Cotto became extremely conservative against Clottey during the latter rounds of their fight. Devon Alexander turned "girly man" after he got cut against Bradley in their fight... There are just soo many instances where cuts alter the mood and overall direction of a fight. Why would Floyd be any different? That being said, I highly doubt Floyd will ever reach that point as he very rarely gets hit with that kind of thunder... The shoulder roll is exceptionally effective against head shots and he has proven to have mastered that technique along with top-tier footwork to slide away from damage. You can hate the man all you want guys... But the kid is special.

He doesn't need to learn how to backpeddle... he needs to learn how to BOX! Boxing involves forward, backward and side to side. I've said since day one that his in-and-out technique leaves him wide open on his way out from exchanges, thus allowing JMM to humiliate the sh!t out of him. There is NO such thing as running in boxing. The ring is squared with ropes in it. When Floyd jumps over those ropes and starts running towards the dressing room in the middle of the 4th round then you can say he ran... Other than that STFU! Pacquiao is a very talented fighter but he has to have one of the lowest ring IQ's in the sport. He never fights smart by any means. He takes risks and people love that, but at the same time you have to be able to back it up at all times... and he doesn't

http://youtu.be/zB_0JeIz2os Let's Go = Fight. And Joe Cortez is one of the best Referees in the sport of boxing ALL TIME. He didn't apologize and he shouldn't. He said let's go and counted Victor out HIMSELF... Its not like some random ref came in and counted him out for Joe...This ain't WWE. He was there for the entire moment. Robert Garcia said it best... Victor wanted out of that fight cuz he was getting his ass whipped.. And to all those in denial who would try to argue that "Ortiz was coming on strong"... You are full of sh*t becuz Victor landed 26 total punches including a whopping 6 in the entire 3rd round. Floyd landed over 70 and Victor's face was swelling up. All this crying "foul" is Floyd haters trying to deflect the real problem.... Which was that Victor LUNGED into Floyd's chin and gashed him good inside his lower lip. Floyd would have had to fight with that the rest of the way as Vic intended. And all it cost this bum is a single, motherf*ckin point!!! Sounds pretty cheap to me considering he just gashed the hardest boxer to land on in the sport! He is hardly in any position to defend or argue ANY point. Hey guess what *sshole... we are in NEXT week... That was LAST week!!!

LOL at you rookies thinking that Margarito doesn't have a chance... Since when does speed determine a boxing outcome... It is an important ASSET but doesn't always prevail... Margarito v Cotto, Judah v Baldomir, Cotto v Judah, Peterson v Rios, Abraham v Taylor, Jones v Tarver/Johnson, Pacquiao v Morales, Martinez v Margarito, Mosley v Wright, Mosley v Forrest... I could go on and on.... Mosley v Forrest kind of reminds me of the kind of fight that can result if Manny doesn't crank it up this week... AND of course Manny COULD just take him to town... WHO KNOWS??? but don't be naive and justify with speed. STYLES MAKE FIGHTS!!! And as much as I think Tony is undeserving of this fight... He IS in it.. And people never look good beating Margarito except for Shane.. And Pac does not hit as hard as Shane

I would not be surprised or upset... It happens in all sports.. More importantly you don't have to come off as a bad person to cheat. People are blinded by how these athletes (not accusing Pacquiao of anything) act all the time. I remember when Mark McGwire got caught... I was like damn, so thats how you broke the record? The one that hurt me most was Marion Jones... That chick was the most amazing female athlete I had ever seen. Next thing you know they are snatchin all her sh*t. Its just sad... but forget me.. I'm a grown *ss man... These little kids are the ones to worry for because they look up to these people. Honestly the whole Floyd thing wasn't even what got me on the whole blood test thing... it was baseball. When I saw them falling like flies thats when I wanted all sports to do blood work. You just can't leave it to the athletes' trust/judgement.

ummmm.... seriously? Notice Khan has only been talking himself up... nobody else is talking him up because he hasn't proven anything.. On the contrary... best memory of Khan is of him doing the stanky leg and dougie at the same time against Prescott!!!!!

I'd say 15 to 16 lbs...