As much as I hate to admit it you hit the nail on the head!!! Some people just dont like white fighters and thats some bullshit too, because if your a true boxing fan, you should respect a fighter for what hes accomplished in the ring regardless of how he has done it, or with what competition he has to deal with. Its not the fighters fault. Floyd Mayweather is a perfect example of this, I cannot stand the guy but the dude has mind boggling boxing skills whether you like to admit it or not.
Sweet Avatar dude
This has nothing to do with black and white. As the HBO crew said on Saturday, "What if they had grown up in a corn field in Nebraska". For the haters it has more to do with them not being American.
If Vitali's name was Mike Klitchman from Iowa, he would be the Great White Hope and American fans would be in love with him.
REMEMBER GERRY COONEY?
So once again, stop bringing race into this. It's getting old.
I must admit that im a huge Sugar Shane fan and cannot stand Mayweather but that is a sweet avatar. Very creative, probably the best one Ive seen in awhile, good job bro.
The reason people do not like Wlad is because under Manny Steward he has become too conservative of a fighter. The only time he really goes for the knockout is when it is absolutely necessary, if he is cut or hurt.
Even when his opponent cannot do a damn thing, he just sits there and accepts a UD. He could have blown out Rahman in two rounds and went easy on him. He could have done the same to Ibragimov in 4 and went easy on him.
Fans don't want to see that.
So your telling me fans dont want to see a HW who has one of the best Knockout percentages in HW history? That statement doesnt make much sense especially the part about accepting a UD. 47 KO's out of 53 wins doesnt really sound like a guy settling for UD's. Mayweather could have knocked out Marquez from the sixth round and on but talk about being conservative, he did not take any chances at all that fight. This double standard problem on this forum is bullshit. Mayweather is one bad dude though, I'll put him up against anybody and if he beats Manny and Sugar Shane, he has got to be considered a Top 5 ATG. I know people dont want to hear that, but thats how it has to be.
Exactly, so are you agreeing with me or not. Because yeah tillis had a record of 42-22 and the guy went the distance with a young hungry prime tyson. You pretty much helped me in my arguement. The guy never fought anyone decent
You keep saying he had freakish strength, Vitali has 36 kos in 37 wins. Tyson never even came close to that and Tyson fought bums from 85-91. I mean do you not hear me when I say he Never beat a top heavyweight. Buster douglas waxed his ass, holyfield dusted his ass twice, lewis crushed him, I mean come on where is this freakish strength at. The same guys he knocked out are pretty much the same guys Tommy Morrison knocked out, are you putting those two in the same class, because there careers pretty much turned out the same
Calzaghe sucks he ducked bhop and roy jones for years and only beat Roy because roy didnt have it anymore and i still think hopkins took him to school rewatch the fight almost everything calzaghe throws is blocked or rolled with
Hey guy, do you read the posts on here at all? If you did you would see the links from Newspapers from 2000, 2001 and 2002 where Joe Calzaghe is calling both of them out saying he will go to the US and fight both of them. So you need to check your information before you start talking about whos ducking who.
I dont agree with that back then jones jr was basically un hittable the jones he fought now gets hit by anyone even sheika hit him a couple times. Jones speed and power were ****ing crazy knockin dudes with one hand behind his back. Calzaghes been dropped in his last 2 fights in the first round with guys who are very accurate but are declining now days in the power department. If this was prime for prime roy jones would have finished him off after knocking him down. Calzaghe bearly beat hopkins now and hopkins bearly threw any punches the hopkins that beat tito would have thrown way more against calzaghe than he did this time and i think hed either get a knock out or win 117- 111
Damn dude I try hard to read your posts but its hard as hell to stop watching those asses shake. Thats a good combo though, booties and boxing. A perfect night for me.
the tyson of 1985-1991 would have cleaned the current heavyweight division out...the knock on tyson is that he does lack heart and if you survive the onslaught of tyson early you can knock him out later..
but the tyson of 1985-'91 would have rolled through the current top 10 heavyweights
The reason why Tyson was so good between 85-91 is because he fought nobody. The minute he fought a good boxer he got his ass kicked. Buster Douglas started things off, then Holyfield kicked his ass twice when Tyson was still a prime 30 and 31 years old, then Lewis finished him off. Everytime the guy fought someone who wasnt 45, (Larry Holmes) or a paper champion (Trevor Berbick) he got his ass handed to him.
The little p*ssy has an agenda against certain fighters..that cannot be ignored.
Believe me..
If Joe were Black American he'd be laughing at the guy..and he's not alone.
If thats the case if Jeff Lacy were white everybody would be laughing at his ass. Who are you talking about anyway? The agenda thing?
yes larry holmes and undefeated micheal spinks are cab drivers
Damn goldenboy I had respect for you because oscar is my boy but when you brought up a 40 something fat has been champion larry holmes and then said Michael Spinks to top it off you lost me man. Spinks had no business moving to Heavyweight, the guy was a blown up LHW. Tyson had NEVER and I say NEVER beaten a Good, notice I didnt say Great, but a Good natural Heavyweight Boxer.
He beats Both. Cats here get fool by their hate or nuthugguerry and they doesnt understand that styles makes. And they always wll.
Calzaghe would of beated both, and he probabyl would of KOd both, back then he was KOing folls the **** out. he he was faster back then, he was more stronger, and he was more powerfull than both B-Hop and RJJ!!!!!!!!
I agree, styles make fights and Calzaghe would have thrown at least 500 more punches in a 12 round fight than either BHop or Jones, and with alot of power back then.
like i do agree with you that douglas, holyfield, and lewis cleaned his clock...and tyson was still a legit fighter then....but lewis who was out of his prime cleaned vitali's clock...shouldnt that tell you something about the prime tyson?
How did he clean vitalis clock. Lewis was down on all three scorecards and Vitali even wobbled Lewis's legs in the second round. Lewis got a break when the ref stopped it because of a cut. If someone is winning on all three scorecard through six rounds I dont know how you can say that they got there clocked clean, doesnt make sense to me
Arreola may be the hype job to put any klit on his ass. Believe that.
I bet if you tell the truth you thought Sam Peter was the hype job to put any Klit on his ass.
Look at this uncle-suckass ass bitch...LOL
Punk youre just hating.
If Joe were a Black american you'd be laffing at him.
I bet you don't think Joe beats Jose Torres.
If Joe beats Hopkins and Jones in their prime then he beat Torres too.
To say Joe beats a prime Hopkins or Jones is like saying Barry McGuigan beats a prime Wifredo Gomez
Mcguigan > Gomez
LOL
Yeah for real dude, why bring race into this? We are talking about who we think would win and why they would win. Its just an opinion. I mean are you serious about playing the race card. Anyone who plays the race card, 9 times out of 10 they are the racist ones, I hope thats not true in your case because racism is some stupid shit
no no no no no and its not a tough question, joe is not in their class
Not in there class yet he beat them both even though he also is not in his prime, the guy was 35 when he fought Jones, only 4 years younger, you act like Joe was 25, his hands are brittle now and hes not the same either and he still beat both of them
very true, as long as you have a swift, stiff jab, you can neutralize the guy coming in, but that can also be applied to the shorter opponent jabbing his way inside while applying the slip, bob and weave.
Yep, that is true, a fighters reach is way more important than his height. Thats what makes freak ass Paul williams so dangerous, his 82 inch reach which is more than Wlads and Vitalis, that is some crazy shit.
I think he cleans Wlad's clock in about 4 or 5 rounds....maybe earlier....too much power, tyson was breaking jaws in 1 or 2 rounds in 85 or 86......and vitali might be able to weather the early tyson onslaught, but still i think to much power for the klitscko bros.....I'm almost certain the '85-'91 tyson beats all the other heavyweights of the current era.....
what you guys think could a version of tyson of '85-91 beat vitali, wlad, both, or neither?
But to answer your question, its a toss up. Wlad could either get caught with a shot and go down in round one and thats all she wrote, or he could jab tyson to death and knock him out in the 8,9, 10 round area. Same with Vitali, even though he has a better chin and defense, if he gets caught with a prime tyson punch, hes more than likey going down for the count, but thats a big if, I say he stays on the outside and boxes Tyson into submission, just like Lewis and Holyfield and Buster Douglas did
I think he cleans Wlad's clock in about 4 or 5 rounds....maybe earlier....too much power, tyson was breaking jaws in 1 or 2 rounds in 85 or 86......and vitali might be able to weather the early tyson onslaught, but still i think to much power for the klitscko bros.....I'm almost certain the '85-'91 tyson beats all the other heavyweights of the current era.....
what you guys think could a version of tyson of '85-91 beat vitali, wlad, both, or neither?
Vitali and Wlad could have beaten all those guys Tyson KO'd between 85-91 just as easily. If you know who James Tillis is you will know that in 86 the fight went the distance because James Tillis was a halfway decent boxer. I say this one more time, Mike Tyson has never and I repeat NEVER beaten a good or great natural heavyweight boxer that wasnt 40 something has been fat asses like Larry Holmes, or blown up Light Heavyweights like Michael Spinks. I challenge you to name one decent guy he beat.
like you might have a point, but it wasnt just james tillis, but the other guys tyson fought were just better then the valuev's and juan carlos gomez's of todays world... '85-'91 tyson ko's both vitali and wlad.... tyson had freakish talent
Sorry man but I just dont see the Pinklon Thomas's, and the Frank Bruno's, and the Alex Stewarts, and the Razor Ruddocks and the trevor berbicks, and the herbie hides and tony tubbs of his era being much better than the top 10 heavyweights now, its pretty much the same level of talent, just look at there records, 85-91 is one of the weakest periods in the last 20 or so years in the HW, along with this era, however, 1992-2003 were the best years since the Ali-Frazier-Foreman-Liston days
come on now?...James tillis had a record of 42-22 carear wise....not really a quality boxer...the level of talent that tested tyson is way better than even some of the elites today....tyson's power during '85-'91 was a freak of nature.
Exactly, so are you agreeing with me or not. Because yeah tillis had a record of 42-22 and the guy went the distance with a young hungry prime tyson. You pretty much helped me in my arguement. The guy never fought anyone decent
and he had spent 3 years in jail beforehand.....those were primer years.
Vitalis old ass stayed away for four years and came back at 37 and won a championship from a 27 year old nigerian, and then defended it against a 35 year old boxer who was supposed to be the next Evander Holyfield at cruiserweight, so thats not an excuse for Tyson, Tyson comes back at 28 from prison and his first fight is peter mcneely. dont you see a little disparity problem there
Tyson prime ended when he went to jail, just like Ali's did when he went into exile. It doesnt mean they were not great fighters after that.
In any case the Tyson that Holyfield beat was a much slower version of the old one, the constant side-by-side movements were gone, he just wanted to land a hard punch.
Alot of Tyson pundits like to play the woulda coulda shoulda and what if this happened and what if this person hadnt died and he hadnt married this woman, its all bullshit. How you handle your self, in and out of the ring are the things that make great champions. Its called self-discipline, a perfect example if Bernard Hopkins, went from street thug to prison to a legend all because of self-discipline and the will to succeed and do whats right
I've been thinking the same. But although he is slowing down with age, he still is (along with his brother) the best heavyweight in the world. I think he will retire after two or three more fights.
He has slowed a little bit but as far as being winded if you watch pre retirement fights, notably the Corrie Sanders and Danny Williams fights he always looks like hes winded around the fourth or fifth round, but he keeps throwing, I think its just the way he breaths I dont know but its weird shit, same with his brother.
No Never thought to much of peter...And as bad as he looked in that fight with klit made me wonder if something as wrong....He sucked ...Arreola is a different type...Truthfully I think Peter and Areolla should fight before a match with Klit...But if you're ready you're ready.
Yep, Peter and Areolla would be a good fight to see before Areolla fought either one of the Klitschkos.
Hopkins wasnt much of a fighter at 26 years old.
Yeah thats kinda true, he was 28 when Roy Jones beat him in 93. The guy got way better with age, but so did Joe
I'm picking eddie chambers to beat Sam Peter by a one-sided decision. Sam Peter is a laughable fighter who doesn't show any heart when things aren't going his way. Next friday is a career breaker for one of them, and I think Sam Peters time is up.
Yeah Im picking Eddie Chambers too, that dude has the fastest hands of any HW right now. If he could get in shape and throw those quick combos he is going to be tough to beat. He needs to show some heart too, when he fought poventkin he didnt really act like he wanted to win that bad.
:gives: Why does everybody worry so much about how much $ the guy's got? Seriously.
Maybe because of the fact he calls himself MONEY Mayweather, and the fact that his record company is called FILTHY RICH RECORDS, and the fact that he threw $30,000 into a crowd of people at a party. He started it, thats why people talk about, if he didnt talk all the damn time about how much money he had, then we wouldnt talk about it.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
What the hell did Mikey Tyson ever do in boxing? Whenever he fought someone that wasnt a creampuff he got KTFO. Buster Douglas put it on his ass, Holyfield did twice and Lennox put him out of his misery. Tyson is way overrated. The only thing you can say good about Tyson was that he had some pop in his punch and all the creampuffs he fought were intimitated by him. Both Klitschkos have a better KO percentage than he ever had. Vitali has the Best KO percentage of all time in the history of heavyweights.
You really think dawson will destroy Roy?
Roys only problem at this point is his punch output. He is still quicker than most of the LHW, even Dawson. He just seems to be going for the knockout these days, just like he did with Calzaghe. If he could throw 60 punches per round his connect percentage is good enough that he could beat dawson. But thats a big IF. Dawson is a young hungry tough fighter. I think Woods and Jones would be a good fight though. too close to call.
Yeah but he said if he wins tonight He wants woods for the IBF eliminator to fight Dawson,.... but he also said hed like to regain the SMW championship against froch possibly...
either way, my confidence in Roy is .... eh... which makes me :(
Yeah Roy whipped Woods ass back in the day, just like he did Toney and Hopkins but this second half of Roy is what worries me. Woods gave Tarver a good fight and although Tarver isnt what he used to be hes still a respectable guy. And I do agree that glen johnson won that Dawson fight, it was close but I thought he won. I think the most shock Ive ever been is when I paid $260 to see Jones fight in Memphis and Johnson knocked him out in the ninth round. I was upset about that for like a week, and to see it in person only made it worse.
tyson wasn't in his prime when Lewis and Holyfield beat him. the only man ever to beat a prime Mike was Buster Douglas.
and let's not forget that Wlad wasn't KTFO by Corrie Sanders! Against a prime Mike, Wlad has no chance, Vitali would lose but maybe on points because of his granite chin. Mike Tyson's chin wasn't that bad as well.
Sorry bro but Tyson was 30 years old for his first fight with holyfield and 31 for his second with holyfield, doesnt get in your prime much more than that, look at Mayweather, hes 30, Hatton, hes 30, Manny, hes 30, 30 years old is a fighters prime, the guy had already shaken all the ring rust from prison, its just that Tyson cannot beat great fighters. He never has, and its obvious now he never will, he choked and got KTFO everytime he fought a great fighter. Its just that simple. And yeah, Sanders did knock out Wlads ass, im not disputing that, but Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman knocked out Lennox Lewis's ass who in return knocked out Tysons average HW chin