Margarito didn't exactly look like the Margarito from pre-handwraps scandal in his outting with Roberto Garcia. Garcia was knocked down early in round 1, but he was able to actually put pressure on Margarito later in the fight. Margarito couldn't find a way to break this fighter down, a fighter that nobody thought would last 5 rounds. It wasn't the same Margarito as before. Whether that is due to loaded wraps or something else, that's for our opinions to decide. My personal opinion of Margarito is that the damage he took from both Cotto and Mosley has took something out of his ability to resist damage. I believe he also knew his wraps were not legit, and I think it trails all the way back at least to the fights after the Williams fights. Also, I don't think he will mentally recover from the whole wraps scandal.
If I were Cotto, I wouldn't want to take the fight. However, this may be the best option for him if he can't get a rematch with Pacquiao or get someone like Berto to fight him.
I believe Cotto would beat Margarito in a rematch, but I don't really ever care to see another Margarito fight.
Clottey has broken mentally in fights where he can't do what he wants to do (i.e. Margarito, Baldomir). This won't be an issue because Cotto isn't a pressure fighter. If Clottey was a bigger puncher, I would put money on him. However, Clottey doesn't sit down on his punches completely. He likes to throw counters out of his shell, and he is very good at this because of his athletism.
Cotto has better transitional offense and defense (on top of a superior jab). Cotto has good enough chops to take whatever he gets hit cleanly with from Clottey. Cotto's body attack may play a role in this fight, because he attacks very well to the body (and Clottey has a high guard).
I have Cotto winning a close, but clear decision.
Tell me how Marciano would beat a peak Ali. Lay out the strategy for me. :boxing:
Read my first post. I said Rocky would get beat by decision. I was simply typing back exactly what Boogie typed first; a factless opinion.
didnt look like an elbow to me, just nice crisp punches.
marciano couldnt stop 40 something joe walcott for 12 rounds, before joe became a stationary target
It was an elbow from an uppercut that grazed his nose.
Walcott was 38, not 40 something. Marciano was never tired in any fight, at any time. You say Ali could tire him because there's a first for everything, so I can say Marciano could stop Ali because there's a first for everything.
I don't believe Ali could stop Marciano (baring a cut stoppage). A cut stoppage is a real possibility, though. Rocky would be chasing Ali all night. Rocky would land his fair share of punches, maybe even hurt Ali at some point. Ali would be to much boxer for him, though. Ali has a great combination of movement and punch. I am a huge Marciano fan, but this is a really hard fight to find a way he wins. Ali by decision.
The computer fight had Rocky winning on a left hook. I'm not sure about the science of the thing.
Saying Rocky couldn't get inside on over a 12-15 round fight is crazy. It's even more crazy seeing as Ali often left is gut open.
The majority of posters in this thread think Ali would be too fast for marciano and either outbox him to a decision or get a late stoppage! So how did that hypothetical fight they had years ago wind up with a Marciano Ko in 13? Was it just a load of crap?
The computer computed numbers, but it couldn't compute or even measure what each fighter had in the hearts. So, numbers wise Rocky could have been competitive.
yeah, and ezzard charles was able to remove's rock's nose from his face.
With an elbow...
who's to say that Ali couldnt get the marciano version tired? there's always a first time for everything.
You're right. Marciano could be the first to stop Ali....
believe me, if ali could dent foreman's chin, then rocky would be no exception
Ali dented an unbelievably exhausted Foreman. Foreman was a walking punching bag when Ali made his move. Rocky wouldn't get tired.
Fair enough Hest, but Ali could bang when he got of his toes and planted his feet. He has a fair few KO's for a 'light puncher'. Liston, Foreman, Patterson...
Clearly. Punching was Ali's most underrated skill. The guy had a sick combination of timing, quickness, placement, and leverage. He punched at different speeds, which is a very vital tool. Ali was a very good puncher.
From a pure power stance, Ali didn't hit as hard as some, but that doesn't mean the guy couldn't KO the top level guys.
the records of walcott's birth date were said to be inacurate, which was said about a lot of fighters in those days. Walcott could, or could not have been past 40. The theory was pointed to that he was.The point being, he was still an old man, who was in the stages of his last couple of fights. In fact the rocky rematch was his last.
i think it's more believeable to say that Ali had a better chance of stopping rocky, than the other way around. Rocky's chin was pretty good, but he was never hit by foreman, shavers, or frazier.
rocky could be cut, aside from walcott, he never fought anyone who used fast combination punching.
Rocky would be getting hit by Ali, not Shavers-Foreman-Frazier etc. I see that you are saying Ali took those guys shots, so he could probably take Rocco's. Ali was a good puncher, but he wasn't going to stop Rocky based on his punching power (which is what I said from the start). I did say that Rocky being cut/stopped was a legitimate possibility. So, yes, Ali was more probable to get a stoppage on cuts, but not from punching power.
Aight bro. But let us be clear that it would be a complete beat down. RM would probably get stopped, certainly lose a UD with high chance of a shut out.
Ali, even in his prime, lost rounds from time to time. I think it's a clear win for Ali, but not a beatdown. Rocky would have his moments, maybe even hurt Ali at some point. I agree Ali would most likely win a wide decision, but Rocky would land (and he won't be stopped unless the ref stopped it via cuts).
From what I saw Cotto can't out-box Margarito, if he can't stop Margarito from coming forward.
Margarito forced Cotto to box to fast to soon. Cotto isn't a guy that can move the entire fight, not with the way he punches. Cotto was able to stand his ground against Mosley for 9 or so rounds, then use his movement to win some of the latter rounds.
Against Margarito, Cotto was moving then landing 3 or so power punches for 6 or so rounds. When he ran out of steam, his defense and punching power was drained to the point that Margarito was going to stop him. He fought Margarito in reverse to the way he has always fought, and that definately wasn't something Cotto was prepared to do. Cotto will not be able to move and throw that many power punches in this fight mostly because he couldn't stop Margarito with those punches. What I mean by stop is that Cotto couldn't stop Margarito from punching back or stop him as in hurt him.
Cotto will have to stand his ground, at least for the early rounds. He may have to do more clinching or somehow find a way to do some body work. If he wants to beat Margarito, he has to change his strategy.
For a bit of an older touch, Archie Moore was granted a title shot 10 years after he earned it. He had some big name fights, but there could have been better fights for him.
There is no evidence McCllelans power faded as the fight went on remember he dropped Benn in the 7th or 8th round. Other than the Benn fight McCllelan never went past the 8th round and McCllelan could have KD'd and built up a large points lead by the half way point that Pavlik would need to KO him which is unlikely because McCllelan had a granite chin.
Just because he dropped Benn later doesn't mean his power didn't fade. You can tell by the knockdowns themselves. Benn was tired and getting hit to much to stand in those later rounds, when earlier it was one flurry that put him out of the ropes.
Look at all of McClellans wins. If he doesn't KO you by the 5th or 6th rounds, you more than likely wll survive the bout.
The consensous is that Pavlik will get caught and go down early. Just to humor the thought, what if Pavlik was able to get out of the first 5 rounds? McClellan's power fades pretty badly, as did his conditioning in a longer fight. If Pavlik was able to get out of the first 5 rounds, he could win the fight by decision.
It would be very hard for Pavlik to make it out of those earlier rounds, though. Taylor cracked him with some powerful, full bore punches and he was able to get up and win. However, could he take the full power of McClellan? I don't think he gets up if he eats those same shots from McClellan. The key for Pavlik would be t not be available for those punches.
well bro u have to look at the severity of the beating.I mean cotto look good but it was against a fighter that comes foward with lil head movement.Cotto got destoryed physically and mentally broken down because he quit.I think when that happens to a fighter he will never be the same.It's his 1st lost and for him to quit and take the punishment he took says it all.
He was beaten into submission, but you are still only looking at one possible outcome when there are several. I have seen fighters broken, and return better than they were. Cotto is still young and will have time to rebuild from the loss.
Remember, his uncle threw in the towel. Cotto clearly was done, but he didn't physically quit or say it. I believe he would have been stopped in the next flurry, and his uncle knew that as well as we all did.
Cotto will be fine. I think he beats down his next opponent.
I think there are some small similarities between the two, but Tyson did it a lot better. I would say they were even in left hand power. Tyson had better movement and defense though.
Tua tries to move in that similar fashion, but his chin keeps him from perfecting his defense. He can always rely on his chin, and not have to worry about defense too much...
I'm a fan of both MMA and boxing. For 20 million I'd fight Randy, but for Mayweather to fight Ranfy, why even bother. MMA isnt scripted like wrestling. He's smart enough to know that.
I'm not sold on Cintron's wrestling skills. He may have wrestled in highschool but that is very different from the levels of wrestling currently in MMA. Not only that, but he looks soft in clinch type situations.
Add in little to no experience in submissions, he would get beat much more than he would win.
I think a better career move would be to find a trainer that could teach him the defensive aspects of the sport.
Roy was superman for 14 years. He just fought on too long. Something he said he wouldn't do, but thats what happens in boxing. Stay retired Floyd. Although I think Floyd retired a little too soon. hes only 31.
The style of fighting that Floyd has is similar to Hopkins. Both are selective offensively and defensively solid. Floyd could fight for several more years without having to fold because of physical drop off.
Ali's remarks to me meant more of how Frazier fought straight forward come right at you here it is take your best shot and give you his. Using his brute strength sort of like a gorilla. He called Foreman the mummy because Foreman walked his opponents down in the ring holding his hands in a certain position that reminded Ali of how the mummy walked in the movies. he called Sonny Liston a bear. A Big Ugly Bear this was just Ali's style not a racist remark. It always the people who think that way that make those claims trying to make something more out of it then it was. Joe took it that way because Joe truly hated Ali and the hatred wasn't there in Ali’s heart for Joe.
That's pretty unfair to say that Joe hated Ali. He didn't take the gorilla comment to a be a racist remark. Joe said that he didn't look anything like a gorilla so he didn't really understand it further than a name calling gesture. However, he understood when Ali called him an Uncle Tom (which was the worst thing he ever called him). I don't know what the true motives were from either man, but it's not fair for anyone to say that they know what was what.
It's not really fair to armchair remarks about this entire situation without actually knowing either man. I feel for Frazier because who hasn't been called names before. Now amplify that with someone you thought was a friend and when you both are on a wider than national stage (lets say the most of the world had heard something of there fights and history together), and anyone can see why Frazier is still a little amped over it.
At the moment I would agree that Cotto needs some more fights. Neither guys is chasing this fight, but I do think it will happen inside of a year or 2.
No, actually it's worse. If you saw the video after the fight, Pavlik said nasty thing about Hopkins like Hopkins isn't even a good fighter and he has no idea why he lost to Hopkins... Pavliks a dickhead.
You need to learn how to listen. He said it wasn't the fact that Hopkins was slick or fast, but that doesn't mean Kelly said he wasn't. Kelly was simply saying something was wrong with himself. In no way did he insult Hopkins there.
Also, he said the guy he beat was able to hit Bernard. So why shouldn't Pavlik been able to?
If this fight actually happens, it could tell us everything needed to know about each fighter at this point in time. Meaning, if Roy struggles against Jermain then maybe he should pack it up or if Jermain struggles maybe he should rework his skills.