GrizzleBoy

Haye could've pressed the fight a little harder. As we all saw, when he let his hands go (in the 12th) he was able to hurt the giant.. That's definately true. However, he fought a fight that never allowed his opponent to use his best strengths against him. That is the definition of boxing, yet people are going on like he was on the back foot because he's a bitch and not because it was the most effective strategy. Valuev hasn't been rocked in 50(?) fights and Haye fought with the smartest strategy. The point is at the end of the day, that noone has made valuev look so amateur and insignificant as a boxer in a long time, and noone has defeated him in 50 fights. Noone has rocked him in 50 fights. I fail to see where Haye made a mistake, apart from underrating his own power somewhat?

The lumbering forward was aimed at Valuev. I don't care much for Valuev he bores me and I was rooting for Haye as he is a Brit. Dreadful fight though but Haye won by a couple of rounds. Some have it 8-4 to Valuev don't know what they were watching think they scored it before the fight. Yeah, I know I was just making a sarcastic post lol. I agree that it could've been more action orientated, but Haye fought how he needed to fight to get the judges to score it in his favour, based upon the criteria that they use to judge fights. Given that Haye won't be fighting any 7 foot monsters again for a while, I'd say we're in for some better looking Haye in the future. I think this fight was definately a great learning experience for him too.

lmao @ idiots comparing a man fighting a sensible fight against a man almost a foot taller and seven stone heavier than him to a man who dwarfs every one of his opponents in a similar fashion. This isn't Hayes fighting style, but he did what he thought he needed to do to win this time. If you could restrain your butthurt, look at some of his previous fights, it's blatant that Haye is overall much more exiting than Wlad.

I'd come here more than maybe three times a year if it wasn't for the rabid fanboys/haters/people who know jack about boxing.

Anyone? Noone wants to challenge my theory that Haye won on the judges scorecards because he was better at the criteria that judges use to score fights? Anyone?

You mean lumbering forward slowly and pawing the air with a jab doesn't win you rounds? Well, I don't know. Are you a Valuev fan/Haye hater? The validity of this dilemma stems firmly upon your answer to that question.

Haye got points for running and landing like 1 punch per round, that is what I heard about this fight that I don't even want to bother watching since Haye fought a boring cowardly fight. Haye can not ever talk bad about the Klitschkos ever again since they land more punches per rounds against their opponents. So you're basing your arguement from what you "heard" and you haven't even watched the fight. Why are you even here lol?

Only on a boxing forum, will a show of such athleticism and boxing mind (in the heavyweight division of all things which is usually just fat guys standing, hitting and hugging each other), be looked down upon by clueless goons who care/know more about hanging from the nuts of their favourite fighter than they do about the actual sport.

Im saying the same case Froch fans made for him winning is the same case their making for Valuev losing. The case was Dirrell ran so he lost, in Haye's case its Valuev didnt land anything, cant have it both ways. In other words, tell me what Froch did to win and tell me what Haye did to win. I didn't even watch the Froch fight so you're trying to have this discussion with the wrong person. When it comes down to it, I listed the criteria that judges use to score fights. You're not even trying to prove that Haye didn't win in terms of all the criteria, you're just saying "yeah but then X guy should have won X fight", which is pretty much unrelated. If you want to cry about the Froch fight, do it somewhere else. Based upon the crieria for scoring boxing fights, Haye won. Where is your counter arguement, other than discussing a totally unrelated fight?

Noone else want to bite?

why weren't most british posters saying this after that fight? seems like they change their mind depending on which style the british fighter is fighting at that time. at least some people have integrity and always score fights the same way every fight. Even I thought he wouldn't win, but not because I thought Haye wasn't making Valuev look awful, but because I didn't the judges would award him for doing it because he was in Valuevs back yard. However, they gave him his props.

Haye was the faster and bigger puncher against Valuev and he also ran like a bitch to protect his own fragile chin. Yeah. David Haye is such a little bitch. Ducking, weaving and slipping shots like that. He should just stand there and let someone almost a foot taller, seven stone heavier with a longer reach just punch him in the face. He would've won for sure.

haha... i love a good boxer as much as the next guy...if you think haye put on a display of the "sweet science," then welcome to the sport... because you obviously havent been watching boxing for very long... He went up against a man with crazy advantages in terms of boxing advantage, went up against Valuevs best weapons and negated them all. Valuevs jab meant nothing in this fight. Valuevs weight advantage meant nothing in this fight. Valuevs height advantage meant nothing in this fight. Valuevs ability to trace people and beat them down meant nothing in this fight. Valuevs chin meant nothing in this fight. David Haye took every single one of Valuevs biggest weapons and strengths and made them seem like childs play. It's called defense and ring generalship.......you know....two of the things judges use to score fights? You can say that Haye should have been more aggressive obviously, but to disregard everything else he did against a man who hasn't been defeated in 50 fights is bordering on retarded.

great post, the best i've seen on this forum since i have beeen here. Well I do try :D

Someone must have a rebuttal?

Totally bias, when these same arguments were made for Dirrell they fell on deaf ears and Dirrell actually made it clear. The fix was in. Haye didnt win 8 ROUNDS. Right......so your defense against my arguement, is that someone else at some point in time has been robbed in your eyes..... Well shit.....I guess you win....... Or not.

Yeah I think a lot of people are overlooking that. His speed (god DAMN), his power, his domination of the ring. Everything was just right. Margarito didn't land anything solid for the greater part of the fight and mosley ain't one to get (too) hurt by one punch.

It looks like I stuck a nerve with some britsh fans. It looks like you say strings of words with nothing but your imagination and/or lack of actual knowledge of the subject and you're getting called out on it. Looks more like that to me.

I don't think a rematch is deserved... It wasn't close, Taylor was winning and got KO'd / TKO, done. So what if it was 14 seconds till the end of the fight, thats how it happened. This was a come back fight, he had his chance and blew it, how many chances can you give him. It doesn't matter about chances and shit. It seems people have forgotten what people watch boxing for. Entertainment. When two fighters have styles that make an exciting fight, the reason call for rematches is not based on fighter progression or what rank they are or even anything they've ever done in the past. The point is they put on a very good show, and they can hurt each other which means the match could go any way at any point, which makes it more exciting. I for one wouldn't mind seeing it again.

Maybe, but I saw none of that in his fight with Wlad. He basically just stood there with his hands in front of his face winky style plodding forward right into the shots as if gloves are cushioned enough to take shots like that without transferring the energy to your face. Needless to say it didn't work. Plodding forward with no head (or even body) movement into a taller fighter with deadly accurate and powerful straights that can stop your forward movement even if they land on your hands is just a retarded strategy, yet so many seem to want to walk right into Wlad. Imagine a kind of Patterson, Frazier, Tyson kind of thing, serious head and body as well as lateral movement. When Wlad is on the inside, whether from his own attack, or when an opponent launches an attack, he'll clinch which resets his reach advantage as soon as they're broken up. If Haye can keep his head in Wlads chest, I think he'll get penalised at some point for clinching and have his best weapons (his stiff straights) taken away. I doubt Haye will do any of that kind of headmovement however since he's the kind of guy who likes to keep his left hand down and fight like an outboxer. We'll see.

I suck cocks daily. Is that so?

1. Talking about fighting strategies that can defeat a fighter is not hating. It's called being a boxing fan and wanting to discuss boxing strategies etc. People really need to take whatever is making them so touchy about merely discussing something like this out of their butts lol. 2. Alis jab was nothing to laugh at either but Frazier knew what he had to do to negate them. Holmes' jab was nothing to laugh at, but Tyson knew what he had to do to negate them. Wlads jab is good yes, I agree. Ever MORE reason for people to do what I'm talking about and employ some SERIOUS head movement to get inside instead of just plodding with your hands up. What good is a jab or a straight when your opponents head is in your chest.

these guys are still pro boxers, you can be assured they come with a game plan to get inside, but wlads jab is so dominant, it alone makes up the majority of his defense. even if they did have the head movement you are seeking, whats to say that it would still be enough to get past his jab? I'm not saying that headmovement will be 100% decisive the Wlad killer, but no headmovement and boxing from the outside is the Wlad opponent killer. If someone has a good jab and a good amount of advantage in terms of height and reach and is jabbing at you like crazy, it's only obvious that you need to: 1. Get low creating a diagonal distance. The diagonal line is always longer than the straight line to reach the same distance. 2. Keep moving. Obviously because standing still or being a one dimensional, straight forward fighter (aka walking straight into him as if his shots arent hard) against a Wlad is just dumb. 3. Keep your head moving all the time. Giving your long armed, hard straight loving opponent a stationary target to just punch the hell out of while keeping out of range is just dumb. Yet so many would rather just walk in, instead of at least try? It doesn't matter whether they're a Tyson or a Frazier or not. If you're up against someone taller with good straights, you get that ****in head moving! It's so simple lol! I'll give you an example. I'm a tall fighter. Most of the time I'm sparring people shorter than me, but one day I had to spar against someone quite a bit taller than me with a crazy reach. I jabbed with him and tried to keep my hands up and box with him, but the reach difference was just lol so I thought **** it? I tightened my guard and just bobbed and weaved and he started missing his straights which is when I jumped in with my own right straight to the body and head. He was forced to use uppercuts and hooks, which are slower, easier to judge (by body movement to create the punch) punches and leave your opponent more open to counter than a straight shot would. In the end I started timing him and counter him. After a while though, I decided take a rest. I put my hands up and tried to box against his long shots like these guys against Wlad and lo and behold, next thing I know I'm stuck against the ropes while he bangs away at my hands, still causing a bit of damage even though I'm blocking. Basically, as soon as I became a straight standing target with low lateral and head movement, he got his best weapons back (his range and his straights) and began to dominate. Now obviously I'm not Tyson and the dude that I was boxing is no Wlad, but if I can figure out that keeping your hands up and being stationary is NOT the way to beat a good jab, why the hell cant the pros? You do what you have to do in the situation you're in right? If you KNOW that your opponent has long jabs and right straights, why would they be MORE interested in keeping their bodies straight up and not keeping his left hand guessing? regardless, truly sorry for lashing out, but this does seem very much like a hate thread. Given that this is really a thread about his opponents and the way they fight, it really would take a lot of twisting in a persons head to think this is someway a hate thread. What have I said about Wlad that is offensive to the point where this is looked at like a hate thread?

Top ten boxers, in each division, according to Ring Magazine; U.K.: Ricky Hatton, champion, p4p Rendall Munroe Nicky Cook Amir Khan Junior Witter Carl Froch Clinton Woods Ola Afolabi David Haye U.S.A. Kelly Pavlik, Champion Bernard Hopkins, p4p Shane Mosley, p4p Kendall Holt Nate Campbell Paulie Malignaggi Timothy Bradley Yusaf Mack Roy Jones Jr. Antonio Tarver Chad Dawson Steve Cunningham Matt Godfrey Eddie Chambers Chris Arreola Rocky Juarez Steven Luevano Robert Guerrero Juan Diaz Rolando Reyes Anthony Peterson Andre Berto Luis Collazo Zab Judah James Kirkland Vernon Forrest Paul Williams Cory Spinks Sergio Mora Randy Griffin Jermain Taylor Allan Green On it's knees, and still head and shoulders above the Brits. No flames. Just fact. Given that the USA has a population about four times that of the UK, your list looks quite proportional to me. If both territories were of the same population level, you could make that kind of comparison, but they aren't. It's like saying that just because countries like China/Taiwan who manufacture most of the products you see in your house means that those products are superior just because they produce more than a smaller country with a smaller amount of factories. I'm not saying that UK boxing > US boxing, but I don't think that comparison works.

Nah man, the punch is coming in at the wrong angle to really be an illegal punch. His arm is parallel with the floor and his hand is perpendicular to the floor. This means that his arm is travelling in a "flat" motion in relation to the ground. If his arm was angled downwards with his hand hooked around the dudes back, then yeah I'd say it was illegal, but it's digging more into the dudes side more than anything. Although the punch lands in a position on his side very close to his back, he's not really hitting him in the back. I'm sure a lot of the most effective body shots land in that area, or a little higher (towards the armpit). Hattons body shot against Castillo landed around that area I think.

Jesus Christ what the **** is wrong with you guys lol? I start a thread with NO hate language towards Wlad (even ****ing praising his power/smarts) etc etc, more towards the way people fight him, and aparrantly, it's a hate thread etc etc blah blah blah. I think some of you may either be biologically connected to Wlads sphincter for you to be so sensitive and butthurt about a thread like this but oh well. bsrizpac, this thread is a simple discussion about the head movement of Wlads opponents and whether it would make a bigger difference. If you want to be butthurt because of this, do it on your own. Anyway... So far, it seems that the people who are being quoted as having good head movement are the ones who gave Wlad the most trouble at some point? Either way, I wouldn't say that Byrd or Brewster have the kind of head movement I'm talking about. In fact, it's not just all about head movement. It's about really trying to actually get on the inside, and fight while you're there. I never saw either of those guys really try to do that, which would take away his comfort zone and his best defense (his straights). I don't mean the occasional feint with the head, I mean the constant slipping and ducking while moving in that people like Frazier and Tyson used.

Stop acting like cunts and talk nicely you cunts.

It has nothing to do with the way his Opponents "fought" It has everything to do with the way Wlad fights.. he is extremely good at hitting and not getting hit.. and he makes his opponents look lost and hopeless Hrmmmm, I think it has JUST as much to do with the way they fought. It's not even like they come out TRYING to show any real movement to the point where you can say that Wlad is taking them out of their rhythm and making them fight his fight etc even though they are to a point by standing straight up and plodding right into a taller guy with hard straight punhces. I mean seriously wtf? Can you imagine Tyson fighting taller fighters with good jabs like that? Can you imagine Frazier trying to fight Ali like that? Ali would just do the same as Wlad. Jab till his neck muscles snapped and then pop his head off with a right straight. The only difference would be that Ali would probably mix it up a little more and be on his toes, but it's the same strategy. They would both have had a target that hardly moved to hit from distance as they felt, because there would be no head movement to even discourage them from throwing.

eh.....wat?

What's illegal about that punch? It's not on his back so ...... ? I dont know :o