Guys that fight at lower weights have a shorter shelf life. They become what fighters call "punchy," which means they end up with a lessened equilibrium and their reflexes and speed deteriorate.
Marquez was a safety first fighter for the majority of his career and took a lot less damage than Morales. Morales was a first rate Mexican banger who was simply in too many wars. If you want a classic example, youtube Jose Luis Castillo's fights with Chico Corrales, then looks at his fights against Ricky Hatton and Alfonso Gomez. Not at all the same fighter.
If you look at Marquez now, you'd say that, while he gets hit a lot less than Morales, he still gets into some brawls (Diaz I). This was simply not the way he fought most of his career, and is probably why he is still in such good condition at his age.
This is a great response. However, there is a huge factor that is missing here with respect to both of their careers, and that's their respective out-of-the- ring lives. Morales was notorious for ballooning up in weight when he was in between fights. He would kill himself to make weight afterwards, and it eventually caught up to him. He was also rumored to like to party and even rumors that he indulged in the nose candy. Marquez on the other hand, appears to have a more calm lifestyle outside of the ring, as well as keeping his weight under control in between fights. All jokes about him drinking piss aside, I think Marquez took better care of himself outside of the ring, and this factor is what we can most attribute their currents states to.
Nacho is overrated.
16 world champions, 3 Hall of Famers including an all-time great, and two more future Hall of Famers. Thanks for playing, try again.
Yea bro here is the link
http://www.boxnoticias.net/
It is in Spanish. He mentions that Nacho was not training him or giving him any attention. All the attention was to JMM...
Wow, this really sucks. I can't picture RM fighting with anybody else in his corner. Thanks for providing the link bro.
It seems like Rafael Marquez the younger brother of Juan Manuel Marquez let Nacho go. And, hired Fernando Beltran as his new trainer.
Nacho is a great trainer but horrible manager.
Do you have any links? I know I read an interview here on NSB a while back where Don Nacho said something about Rafa being too cocky for his good or something to that effect. Having said that, are you saying that Rafa fired him as a manager only but will still train with him? I am a little confused here.
nacho was his first trainer, been with the marquez bros since they were kids.
for a second there i thought it was JMM from the title.
Actually his dad was his first trainer. He turned them over to Don Nacho when they were getting ready to turn pro. He confirms this in the article and states that he will probably return to his father with the possible help of Daniel Zaragoza. I guess if it's true that Don Nacho was ignoring him, he was damned if he did and and damned if he didn't.
The only time he lost can be attributed to anything he wants put as a reason , lots of bullshit excuse get put out on losing fights by fighters , but then Pac dont lie does he , maybe ask his wife if Pac lies .
As I pointed out there has been a cut point put in this to cover Pacs fear of testing near the fight , he can only be one reason any logical thinking person will come up with as to why Pac is the first fighter , well dam probably the first clean athlete in history to say no to being tested .
Pacquiao attributed the Morales loss to BAD SOCKS. Yes, you read correctly, bad socks! Now the story changes because the need for a different excuse has arisen.
Already went through that, there was a precedent for those penalties.
No precedent for Mayweathers extra testing, so why should he bow to it? If someone makes baseless allegations against me, I wouldnt even entertain it, let alone go out of my way to prove the idiot wrong.
There is a precedent. Arthur Abraham just went through the same tests as part of the Super Six Tournament. He never offered any resistance nor filed any lawsuits, did he?
It doesn't matter who Floyd fights, because he will never get any credit for fighting older fighters that are jumping 2 weight divisions and Floyd still refusing to make the contracted weight . Paul Williams is the only exception and I think he is a natural MW. Here are the excuses that will be used.
Floyd beats Pac (assuming Pac beats Cotto)- Well Pac didn't have as much experience as a WW and has been in too many wars.
Floyd never beats Margarito- Margarito was a cheater and was only dominate with concrete in his gloves. Floyd knew that all along and that's why he turned down $8 MILLION dollars to fight him. Now that Shane already proved that he did Floyd a favor because now he doesn't have to worry about them pesky boxing fans demanding that he fight him.
Floyd never beats Cotto (assuming Cotto gets passed Pac)- Well, Margarito made Cotto damaged goods, and he only beat Pac because of size. And his size happens to be the same as Floyd's, therefore disqualifying him as a potential opponent.
Floyd never beats Berto- "Berto was always overrated, he never fought the quality opposition that Floyd has, so why should I, Floyd Mayweather Jr, give him a payday?"
Floyd never beats Clottey- Well Judah did well against him for awhile and Cotto, who was damaged goods, beat him so Floyd was expected to win. Once again, why should Floyd even fight this guy after what I just said? Wait, what did you say? Oh, this guy is a true welterweight too?! D-I-S-to-the-qualified from fighting Floyd.
Floyd vs any young prospect never happens- Floyd is a seasoned veteran and the young fellow shouldn't have been in there with Floyd ,said Floyd when approached with the proposition.
Floyd vs anybody older than him- Floyd always fights over the hill fighters, except if his name is Shane Mosley.
He can't win no matter what does or who he beats, if he does it while trying to insult the intelligence of KNOWLEDGEABLE boxing fans by fighting SMALLER fighters.
Great post man! :boxing:
Mosley is an ACTUAL welterweight, and the welterweight champion at that.
Pacquiao is great but a fight with mayweather would be for a mythical pound for pound title and nothing else. Neither Mayweather nor Pacquiao is the champ in the division they would be fighting.
Mayweather-Mosley on the other hand, is for the definitive #1 spot in the welterweight division.
It may not be bigger, but it could be a better action fight, and its more meaningful
I guess it depends on your definition of "meaningful". I will say this, though, Mosley is a tougher fight for FM, even with Pacroid juicin' it up.
The day after the fight I made a thread saying I thought Tony's weight had something to do with his performance and some pussy red K'd me.
As shit goes on, it's looking more and more like he was having trouble with weight.
Damn! I have been talking about this with my friends since the day of the fight. I haven't seen ONE article by the so-called boxing writers that have made any mention of this. If anyone has a link that proves the contrary, please post it for me.
Steve Kim said that AM looked more like a the "Tijuana Torta" at the start of his training camp than the Tornado. I've been telling people that weight troubles and a career defining performance combined with a good fight plan on Mosley's part spelled disaster. But I agree wholeheartedly with you and some of the other posters, the weight was most definitely a factor. Gaining 15 pounds over night is a tell-tale sign of dehydration!
Mellow, do you have the original transcript of the interview, in Spanish? I know sometimes things get "lost in translation" and I would like to see the original version, if possible.
Mayan Sun, who is training Mares now? Do you know why this is? I thought Don Nacho was doing a good job with Mares. Frankly, Mares didn't impress me before he hooked up with Beristain but I was seeing a lot of improvement.
I like how all you pusssies say JMM should stop asking for a 3rd fight but nevermind out of all these superstars that Pacman has been destroying over and over again JMM remains the only fighter in the last 5-6 years that could stand up to Pacman and fight him on even terms. I think Pacman would probably win a third fight between them but I think Marquez will push Pacman to the limit just like any good arch rival would do. The truth is Marquez earned a third shot at Pacman seeing as Hatton, Oscar, and Cotto couldn't do shit to pacman.
Bro, you hit the nail on the head. What I also don't understand is how a lot of so-called boxing fans can chastise a great fighter like Marquez for WANTING TO FIGHT THE BEST. Is Pacquiao not considered #1 P4P right now? Like you said, Marquez has earned his right to fight him. There is a reason why Pacquiao, Arum, and Roach have up until now not mentioned Marquez as a possibility.
These are the same people that criticize Mayweather for not facing "the best" yet turn around and talk sh#t when Marquez wants a third match, with "the best". One thing is for sure, if more fighters were like Marquez and chased the path of most resistance, there would be no such thing as "MMA" and talk of boxing "dying". Wise up you fvcking hypocrites.
if he keeps disrespecting pac hes not gonna get his payday of a lifetime.. same goes with every other fighters.
Whoa, wait a second. I thought Pacroid was a "humble warrior"? Which one is it? Is he a "humble warrior" that fights for his people or is he a proud warrior looking for excuses?!
Wasnt Arizona actually a Mexican land before the U.S.A took it over?
Not just Arizona. California, Texas, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, and parts of Wyoming too. This amounted to HALF of Mexico's national territory at that time.
If anyone has the most informed speculation of what would happen between the two it would be a common opponent so I am going to take JMM's opinion here as the most objective and knowledgeable view on who would win between Pac and Floyd.
Very well said.
Calibre you sound like such a bitter bitch. Are you shane mosley cause boy you sound like him?
Do you care to elaborate?! Or are you content with attacking me and sounding like a fvcking 5th grader yourself? I put up some facts, where are yours? :bottle:
All your Marquez huggers no for damn sure Pac was NEVER ducking him. All Pacquiao was doing was establishing his own greatness and shooting for the big payday in DLH.
PAC HAS NEVER DUCKED, AS DID MARQUEZ WHO DUCKED MORALES, AND DUCKED THE SECOND FIGHT WITH PAC AFTER THE DRAW. FOR DAMN SURE.
You are the perfect example of a Pacquiao ball-licker that tries to pass off as a KNOWLEDGEABLE boxing fan. When in the fvck did Marquez EVER duck Morales?! When?!!! What facts do you have to validate this outrageous statement?! If you knew anything on the subject, you would know that both fighters were under the Top Rank banner for years and a fight between the two was never even proposed, for any amount of money! It is hard to "duck" somebody when the offer is never on the table. It is the consensus amongst many boxing writers that both the Barrera and Morales management (not the fighters themselves) wanted NOTHING to do with Marquez. Too much risk and very little reward.
And just an FYI, in case you haven't heard, a second fight between JMM-Pacquiao already took place. Yes it did, and this was a more dangerous and better polished version of Pacquiao than the one that was offered for $750K to JMM "after the draw".
Look believe what you want, I don't care. I sure you're wrong and I'm right. As far as your post I started to read it but it sounded like all the Margarito nuthuggery I've been reading since saturday and frankly I've had enough of it.
And if your not an alt Ill give you a hint, smaller post. Most people won't be bothered to read through all that specially when most of it is bullshit.:boxing:
Ok, so you're applying the same lack of logic to counter my argument as you are to this handwrapping situation. You're sure I am wrong and you're right?! How could that be if you just admitted you didn't even read my whole post?!?!?! You didn't even read my entire post so what if what I wrote is exactly what you are saying? Seriously bro, are you 12 years old?
ok let me break it down.
as for technology: Japan > US --- we can all agree with that, right?
Japan and Philippines are neighbor countries. which means its alot quicker to distribute tech between countries.. example: cell phones that are brand spankin new in US is about a year and a half old in asia.
No we can't. Why? Because you said so? Put up some facts and then we'll talk.
Really? We manufacture nothing? America is on the cutting edge of almost everything. Ever heard of Apple? How about Microsoft? Google? Yahoo? We manufacture a ton of goods, we have THE dairy producers in the world, the largest government run company. People who talk should get educated. America has learned that innovation is better than production. What makes more, Microsoft? or some widget factory?
Here is what we should do. If someone is an illegal immigrant we should conscript them into service, they will be auctioned just as if they were t-bills or other securities. Companies can bid on them in bulk, or individuals can purchase them. Once purchased they will become slaves for 10 years. After 10 years they can stay here legally. THat would be fair. Or, we should cut off their feets and throw them in the ocean. That also would be fair. If you break the law you need to be punished. By the definition of their name they are law breakers.
Ive seen some brilliant responses by liberals here. Such as illegals pay income tax...YOU CANNOT PAY INCOME TAX WITHOUT A SSN OR TAX ID NUMBER. By their very definition illegals dont have that. Arizona does not tax food, so wrong again. Also you cant tax weed purchases which is what the average illegal spends the majority of their money on.
Today in Arizona an 8 year old girl was raped and killed by 4 illegal immigrants. She was gangraped and tortured, then stabbed to death. But, no, you cant deal with the hassle of showing your id when stopped after being suspected of committing a crime....
Hey Fudge PACK, I am terribly sorry about the emotional scars that you are faced with from your upbringing. It is terrible that your mom spent more time fvcking and smoking weed with the "illegal" gardener at your house than reading and spending time with her remedial son (you). That had to be a very traumatizing experience, and we all empathize with you. However, a boxing forum is not the place to vent your anger towards the "illegals" that serve as a constant reminder of that childhood anxiety, though. You should really seek professional help.
Either way 140 or 147 is just about the same thing...he can come in at barely over the minimum and he should b good while still keeping he speed/skill/movement and add minimum weight at fight night..
Bro, do you realize WTF you're saying and how stupid you sound in doing so?! If it's the "same thing", then why did Pacroid demand that Cotto come in at 145 and Margarito at 150? Genius.
Ill watch some more of his fights before I elaborate and try and see what you are describing.
So you haven't even watched many of JMM's fights yet you're dismissing him as P4P material? That's a flawed approach to this whole thing, don't you think?
Also, have you ever heard of a guy named Robbie Peden? Probably not. Well he is a guy that owns TWO wins over Nate Cambell by KTFO! Juan Manuel Marquez dominated Peden and made him quit on his stool. Yeah yeah yeah, that may have been a couple of years ago but don't forget that "longevity" is also a factor when taking into account P4P status. And I am not taking a "Fighter A beats Fighter B, Fighter B beats Fighter C, therefore Fighter A will also beat Fighter C approach", Mosley-Cotto-Margarito is a perfect example of why that doesn't work. Regardless, at least put up some facts one way or the other before making dumb statements and then admitting that you haven't even seen the fighter in action in a subsequent post.
Wow Im fukin blown away
I never thought this fight would get over 400k.
I was totally wrong! Well good for Floyd and JMM and everyone involved. Regardless of who you think sold the fight, it obviously did well..no it did great and Dana White knows now that he cant fuk with boxing.
Thank you Floyd and JMM!
PS I still hate floyd but cant knock his draw or his numbers
and no one can knock JMM for not being a draw either so floyd ball washers realize that JMM had a big part in those numbers it wasnt all floyd and you know this!
Well said!!!
He said it because if you write anything in contrary to what he believes than he has to label you as one thing. He has a one track mind. He's a CottoToto.
More like a Cotto-Joto. I am surprised he didn't take the Pee-Wee Herman stance, "I know you are, but what am I?!"
Mexicans are bullish but actually they're cowards...:lame:
Cowards? You are insulting a whole nation of people through the internet, anonymously, what do you call that? Pendejo.
OK. Now let's talk about same day weigh ins. Robinson fought during an era where 160 basically meant 160. Floyd is fighting an an era where MWs come in over 170.
Ok, so you are afraid that "The Best Ever" might get outweighed by 10lbs come fight night? What does Floyd weigh on the day of his fights, BTW?
How stupid would anybody sound saying Floyd beat Pacquiao the other night because he outweighed him on fight night?
Go do your homework and understand why weigh-ins were moved to the day before in the first place. That rips your whole "160 basically meant 160" argument out the window!
Guys, this is obviously an attempt to hype the fight. People who are familiar with Don Nacho's training style and the mentality of fighters coming out of the Romanza gym know that they never even mention the word knockout. Their philosophy is do to the right things one round at a time, and let the knockout come by itself, if it does.
I am rooting for Marquez, but there are several reasons why I don't believe he will have his hand raised come Sept. 19th. Here's two of them:
1. Like Mayweather has said, a great bigger fighter beats a great smaller fighter (under "normal" circumstances).
2. His only hope for a victory is a KO, since there is no way in hell he gets awarded a decision in LV against Mayweather, even if he earns it. Just look at his two fights with Pacquiao for proof. The boxing "powers that be" are already counting their $$$ for FMJ-Pac. Regardless, I don't think it comes down to this. Mayweather is simply too big.