If you consider the comp in different era's, the only way to say any fighter over the last decade or so is an ATG is via eye test. Floyd and Pac both obviously are there based on what they did in their early careers.
Apart from them, for me at least, Bud is the one guy who I believe could have fought in any era and beat the best of that era. And that is purely eye test and I said it before he even beat Spence. He has intangibles that 99% of fighters don't have.
Usyk is a very good fighter but not an ATG IMO. Fury was past his best and AJ is a good puncher, not a great boxer.
i wholeheartedly agree with this assessment and how i arrived at my conclusion. i actually like usyk to be honest BUT he only got 24 fights. he did MOST of his work in the AMATEURS.
agreed as well on mayweather and pacquiao
also again, agreed on Bud.
I like GGG but come on people as of right now he is no where near ATG status not even close( I consider ATG top 10-15 boxers in the last 100 years). He has awesome power and now he's getting pushed by HBO so he should start getting some big fights. but as of right now his resume is paper thin you can't realistically say he's in the top 10 since 2000. Another thing going against him is his age He's 31 and spent a good chunk of his prime fighting Journeyman fighters ( D grade at best ) that's not impressive.
GGG is exciting but it'll be interesting to see what happens when he faces elite competition he has potential but it's to early to hand the crown to him yet.
And for people claiming Calzaghe is a ATG that's a joke straight up he fought almost his whole career in the UK and mostly fought nobodies. What's his 5 best wins ? ( he didn't beat Hopkins and Jones was a shell of his former self ) what's left Kessler , Manfredo, Bika yeah that's a resume of one of the best who ever put on a pair of gloves. I get that he's popular but I view him as a Chris John type of fighter , won a belt stayed at home and beat people he was supposed to beat just a over rated champion ( I bet if you went to Indonesia Johns the #1 ATG I mean he beat Marquez and a boat load South East Asian rice farmers & Scrap metal pickers). That's ATG status right there.
same here i had B Hop winning that fight 8-4 watched it 4 times and came to the same score
The biggest coward in Boxing they now beat Julio Cesar Chavez Jnr it is sad.
AJ thinks he is a smart Businessman, he is nothing but stiff robotic uncle tom sell out boxer. Not even got a black chick as GAL:sad6:
anthony joshua Ol Lady aint Black?
had it 6-2 after 8 rounds for canelo
ggg won every round but the 12th on my scorecard
looks to me like ggg was getting his offense offset by the canelo body work and he would have to reset with the jab(thats why he was jabbin so much) bc he likes to have room to extend his punch canelo didnt give him that option. that alone shows ring generalship for canelo and the man who had over 300 am fights got the pace dictated to by the smaller fighter ggg looked his age in this fight. but if they gave the fight to ggg i wouldnt be mad neither fighter showed TRU separation in this fight.
It's a 50-50 fight but Povetkin beat Ortiz as an amateur, and if I remember he knocked him down in the first round within the first minute, and then stopped in the last round due to the point system they had back then. Ortiz was around 20 to 30 lbs lighter and more mobile, but not as skillful as he is today. Povetkin beat Ortiz pretty easily as an amateur but they've both improved since then and a pro fight could really go either way.
just searched it up and found NO evidence of such.
i think you're lying
only thang i found was wikipedia saying that.
no other information.
WHERES YOUR PROOF?
Fuss about nothing. They should have let it carry on so Khabib's crew could give McGregor and his fake tough pikey wannabe's the beating they deserved.
whats a "pikey" mane?
Khabib did what a real man supposed to do, stood up for his family and beliefs, without caring about consequences. Some of you will never understand...
Plus whole UFC and audience was against Khabib that night and that was a payback.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/10/07/USAT/fa0f4771-8827-4725-b8d2-2f15698db3a2-2018-10-06_Khabib-Conor1.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/js0xjCEaFkk/hqdefault.jpg
i been meanin' to ask somebody who a khabib fan(idk **** about mma) but why does he wear a blonde afro wig?
McGregor got what he deserved. But don’t act like Khabib’s crew isn’t some of the worst human beings on the planet. Khabib is backed by some truly dispicable people. The type of people who are literally war criminals.
i would bet that if there ever was a statistic for it that "america" has more "war criminals" within the confines of these borders per capita than ANY country on earth.
It's not a wig, it's a traditional warrior hat from Caucasus mountains called papakha, wearing this hat means you're ready for war. There's black papakhas too, but Khabib has a white one
'preciate that mane. me bein' of Afrakan descent and bein' raised in the western hemisphere we just dont hear much about russia unless its negative over here. i respect russia tho for what they've done with ACTION in favor of Afraka. they dont seem to be like the europeons and the united snakes so its good to learn some new **** mane
i remember when these idiots on this forum were talkin' about how Haymon was "bankrupting" showtime & it was a matter of time before Haymons "money ran out" hahaha. NEVER listen to these INTERNET FINANCIERS.
while they were talkin' **** about Al Haymon PBC & showtime their own houses(that they aligned themselves with was sinking like the "american" economy in the 80's) were on fire and in disrepair.
haha i wonder what stupid ass steve kim and the other fool michael monticello is sayin' now when they stated they would NEVER work for Al Haymon... HAHA
ALWAYS bet on Black mane
Oh I remember. This has been the routine for years. It goes back before you and I were even born let alone thought of
yup it manifested itself in Jack Johnson which actually gave birth to the "great white hope" phenomena which plagues the minds of whites in the united snakes mostly, but other europeon nations do the same as well and even the soviet union gets into the narrative from time to time but way less than other europeon nations.
now the next one has arrived and its usyk now after 15 professional fights dan rafael has stated that usyk after 15 fights is a greater CRUISERWEIGHT than evander holyfield who went to heavyweight at and became UNDISPUTED in the 3 belt era.
how can an individual who was basically a "professional amateur" who came out of the olympics a GROWN ADULT MALE and ONLY fought 15 fights be considered the greatest of all time?
this is what i have an issue with and thus the rivalry will NEVER subside. usyk i THOUGHT was like 24 years old when he beat bellew come to find out he was actually 31 and that took ALOT away from his luster. & to be honest who was bellew REALLY? he already got stopped in i believe 6 rounds by Adonis Stevenson at LHW then went up to cruiser got ONE belt from a TITLE holder and went to heavy. who in the hell is bellews best win for ppl to consider usyk THE BEST cruiserweight of ALL-TIME?
the narratives they push into public conscious is what drives the animosity for these fighters, that most blacks actually have NO problem with until certain people get behind these fighters and make it unbearable to like the fighters.
I appreciate your honesty but I’m talking about Americans supporting Americans no matter the color.
For example why the heck are Americans rooting for Anthony Joshua?????
well "america" is comprised of different ethnic groups under the banner of "america" Black people have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT experience than ALL other ethnic groups in the "americas"
so technically we're not "nationalistic" we're "racial" if that makes sense. so we aint gonna just support a fighter bc they come from "america" bc within "america" we have inter-racial viewpoints that is specific to our ethnic group which is Black DOS(descendants of enslaved afrakans) so we dont look at it the same way as most others do.
in that regard as far as anthony joshua i would assume(from the responses on social media) they dont like wilder bc of his outspoken nature on certain issues i guess i've seen them call wilder a "thug" etc and i dont understand it bc he acts NOTHIN' like the likes of broner
they did the same with wanting pacquiao to want to defeat mayweather i mean i think THAT is a complex answer if i must respond honestly.
i think its more of they want joshua to win bc he's more of the "acceptable" option that doesnt ruffle feathers i guess....
i have no idea mane what do you think it is
Wow. Man, so based off your assumptions, Wilder can continue to beat bums for the rest of his career, and you will STILL think hes an all time great hahahaha. 40 fights, 38 bums, no unification fights, no former champions, but somehow hes an amazing boxer hahahahah
no unifications bc other "champions" will not fight him.
he's fighting the UNIFIED UNDEFEATED LINEAL Heavyweight Champion who NEVER lost his belts in the ring. i think its safe to say that he's fighting the best fighter in the division besides Anthony Joshua.
if he beats Tyson Fury he will widely be considered the best heavyweight who fought the man who beat the man FIRST which is Tyson Fury and held the wbc title longer than any current heavyweight champion. your biased nature doesnt allow you to see the IMPROVEMENTS in Wilders game & like i said in the beginning so YOU KNOW MORE THAN EMMANUEL STEWARD RIGHT?
I don't know how anyone with any sort of boxing knowledge can look at Wilder resume and claim he is number 1 or 2 in that term at HW. Wilder is now being let off the hook by his team.
I don't think they were that confident about him until very recently, for example the povetkin fight was delayed for whatever reason even before Povetkin failed those drug tests, Wilder was having surgery and then taking tune ups before he actually sorted out the Povetkin mandatory.
I just feel they did his career a disservice until recently, and i think Wilder himself broke that chain after his comments after watching Joshua/Wlad live in the Uk. He wanted the same thing, money, fans adulation, filled arenas etc And i think thats where Joshua got sucked in, thinking yeah we can build this up (Due to Team Wilder moving him slowly), Joshua thought the fight would happen by 2019/2020.
he offered anthony joshua $50 million(the biggest GUARANTEE in Heavyweight boxing history) and anthony joshua turned that down saying he wanted to fight in the uk for the fans but initially said "lets roll" on wilders ig page
Oh God. That reddit article. Where is Mitchell Kane, big dunny, killakaki and the rest?
I remember Laces Up saying “they lost 500 million!” like the investors were playing short on a time buy :lol1:
Matter of fact, I was arguing with people on here months ago who said Fox would never give them a deal.
ikr and then when the their "countdown to doomsday" deadline passed and PBC was still moving forward even through the lawsuits from tr & gb they slowly faded away but then adopted the same model of showcasing fights on premium network tv.
nobody said a word after the fact.
i love BOXING idc who diskributes the fights etc bc im NOT getting paid from none of it i just want to watch fights and be entertained by who the best is at each weight division
Wilder isn't the kind of fighter where you can tell when his prime is/was until he's done. Dude doesn't have the amateur background of other fighters, so he has less wear and tear at age 32. A.k.a, he's a young 32 as far as boxing is concerned, so his prime might be right now. it might be next year.
thats very very very tru
Any time you have a black man at the head of an organization, you can expect "certain" fans to label said organization as nefarious... Just the way it is.
Agreed. i was on here when Al Haymon first unveiled PBC and EVERYBODY who wasnt black was ****tin' on the PBC and were saying that by "such & such time PBC will be bankrupt, look at the article on reddit & such n such" everybody somehow became a financial consultant on financial matters all of a sudden.
PBC has produced some of the best fights of any network.
i watch all boxing but i lean more towards PBC bc most of the fighters in the united snakes is on the pbc platform & convenient
Who Cares! Same people who bash PBC was asking for Links for the Press Conference earlier today :lol1: they will complain but THEY WILL WATCH :dunno:
Same with DAZN, Top Rank...Boxing Fans will Support IT ALL but it is not the boxing fans that they need, it is the GROWTH in CASUAL FANS they need and being on Network TV for sure can help with that because a Casual is not going to Download a APP for a sport they Casually Watch BUT they might stick around for a Loma and Crawford on ESPN while waiting for Sportscenter or stick around for PBC on Fox waiting for their Local Prime Time News Coverage to come on
The Powers that Be in boxing are not listening to the Internet Boxing Fans and they shouldn't because honestly...Most Of Us Don't Know Sh#t! :dunno: How can we tell promoters how to create bigger boxing stars when none of us ever created one, why the hell should they listen to us? :lol1:
Respect to Fox for investing into boxing and they seem like they're going all out for the sport like they do for NFL Football which is GREAT!
wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment you cant please everybody
but also i would like to say if ppl used their views like a voting bloc there would be more control but unfortunately no one looks at that narrative
i agree with canelo wholeheartedly
i'm Black and i always support the Black fighter within the realms of logical reasoning
nothin wrong with canelo sayin' this
Apollo himself could step down from Olympia with the sole purpose of displaying prefect boxing and these kids would respond with " But what his resume doe?"
The legend of Polydeukes does not center around namesake it centers around feat.
Triangle theory is laughed at and ridiculed until convoluted by a ladder system. It is semantics, but it is the accepted form of semantics. Both sides will employ it to their needs when convenient regardless of the nature of the argument.
Which is why y'all find yourselves in so many semantics based arguments no one can win. Which is why you don't talk to one another but rather at one another. You're not talking to your debate opponent. You, like a politician, are speaking to your base so that you might get others to say hurray for your side and gang up on one opinion.
Feats are stronger. Feats are what we use to gage the abilities of men not resume.
I'll give you an example. Ali says Shavers hit hardest right? Plenty of folks have claimed it's Foreman. Where is Shaver's or Foreman's actual energy readouts? Those don't exist so what's the next step you can use, by numbers, to rationalize their power? KO% obviously. What is the likeliness their opponents get stopped. At no point is it ok to stop and say " But dat were Frazier doe so him get extra points"
Like it or not that is the only way to codify abilities.
Rocky Marciano has the 925ft-lbs stat verified by the US Army on top of his KO%. The likeliness of Marciano stopping his opponent goes up because you have more values to work with. 925 suggests that should Marciano land he wins, no one can simply eat 925. the KO% suggests if you fight him you are likely to be stopped. combined on any sort of number generator and what you have is two logical and mathematical ways Marciano stops people where most of your heaviest hitting fellas in history only have one because everything else people use, such as hearsay and semantics, to prove their power is not something that can be given a value.
Which is why Marciano dominates simulators. Outside of Boxrec's website sim they don't use resume to compare abilities they use statistics. Usually on the d20 system so if you know D&D it isn't too terribly different. I think they use d100 but it's the same as the d20 system.
To find out Superman's biggest output of power you do not look up which comic book crossover he fought his best names in. You look up his most absurd feat, apply a bit of math, and jango now you know the most amount of energy Supe has put out, now you can codify that peak and use that value to see how his displayed ability matches up against another's displayed ability.
resume is the opposite of this. Resume argues name based values. I defeated this man so that prove I have these skills....well that is a very personal way to look at things. I hit X hard so I have the ability to hit X hard is much less so. I beat a man known for speed so I am faster is nice propaganda. I have registered higher speeds than this man known for his speed so i am faster is simply true.
marciano was trash. he was a earlier form of joe calzaghe waited til fighters got old to beat them.
marciano is NOT the reference point you want to abide by
Yeah my argument that who has beaten more credible opponents is better, is inferior to your claim that the colour of a belt carries weight on a resume.
:lol1: :lol1:
povetkin failed multiple drug tests and failed the drug test when wilder was SUPPOSED to fight him BEFORE aj
Wilder in 2018 is to have fought 2 top 5 heavyweights so his resume will be better than aj i'd say bc he called out aj and aj turned down $50 MILLION dollars in 2018 to secure a fight with povetkin when they said wembley was not available for the wilder fight.
barry hearn has stated multiple times he doesnt care to ever see the wilder fight
i dont put heavyweights in the p4p discussion thats for the lower tier weights.
just like the old timers say
theres Boxing & then there's the HEAVYWEIGHTS.
You'll like ultratech if you hate Eddie Hearn, otherwise the shtick gets old fast.
i'm checkin' him out now his latest video he uploaded and so far he funny.
'preciate you for the recommendation mane
The two best were A million styles boxing and boxing gossip, both are defunct now though
The worst is ultratech sports
gotta look up ultratech sports MOST of these folks i see yall commenting i have NEVER heard of
i forgot to mention radio raheem to me he is THE BEST interviewer/journalist period.
i forgot about blueblood sports tv