There are no David Diazes at 147 or 154 who hold the WBC title. Mosley is about to own it after he beats Berto. Martinez owns it at 154. So my question to Packy fans is why doesn't he fight for it anymore each time he goes after a title holder?
This could apply to Floyd as well, but at least he is done fighting for titles and just going after name opponents now. I respect that more than winning them from weak fighters and proclaiming he is better than Ali and SRR. He hasn't done that since he fought Baldi even though he still claims he's great. Packy just goes after the WBO crap strap like the one Cotto won against cough, cough Michael Jennings instead of doing it the honest way against the guy who is considered at the top of his game.
You ever considered stand-up?
I use to always say Toney but Floyd has mastered that shit now. I wont be upset if you give it to Toney though. You have to take into account that saying one guy is better at the shoulder roll doesnt mean that he's better at defense. I think Floyd is clearly the best guy at defense. He can do alot of things defensively where as Toney only can do the shoulder roll. What Floyd did to JMM was amazing though. He made JMM look like an amature trying to hit him. Size aside, that shit was impressive as hell when you rewatch it
Very impressive stuff, but hard to use as evidence when JMM was clearly outmatched at such a high weight!
Whats with the Hayden hype shes average as hell.and looks like a under developed 12 year old.
No thanks.
Funny, I'm sure she'd say the same about you! lol.
Watch Toney vs Iran Barkley for the best demonstration of the shoulder roll. That said, Floyds mastered his craft and his record speaks for itself. I'd say floyd, but I'd also say floyds the better fighter overrall as well.
That fight is a magnificent example of boxing skill.
Floyd Mayweather, no question. Trust me, I'm unbiased!
Haha, yeah! lol.
Anyway, Toney would get the edge for me. He was more effective firing off counters than Floyd IMO.
I couldnt argue with those scores. They were both damn close in my opinion.
True. I found it hard to judge accurately as I'm a big fan of both too!
I thought the second fight was clearer due to McCallum improving markedly from the first.
Both excellent demonstrations of technical ability as well.
I hate the way Pacman fans accuse others of downplaying his wins when his actual camp downplay them as well. I can give video links of interviews with Roach and Ariza if anyone thinks I'm talking crap. They downplay Oscar, Hatton and Cotto.
And when does Floyd "big up" his opponents exactly then?
No way in hell those cats hit him clean. That doesnt mean they wont win. Some of them can just throw 4 punhces to his 1 but they arent hitting him clean at all. Pryor & Chavez? No way. Those guys swing super wide. Youre not hitting Floyd with that wide ass shit. I just dont see any of them doing it, maybe for the exception of Duran who is a beast all around but those other guys cant.
JMM KO a Diaz & Casamayor who have never came close to being stopped. He got rocked but JMM always gets rocked because his D sucks. There aint no one at WW that is going to stop him from landing like Floyd did. Just like Mosley is the worst matchup in boxing for Margarito. Floyd is also the worst matchup in boxing for JMM. I still thought JMM looked way better than people think but Floyd just didnt give him a real chance to show it. I think his speed was way better than people say, I think he had nice pop as he did catch Floyd with like 2 nice shots, and his counter punching was on point like always, only Floyd wasnt going to commit because of it
No one on that list hits him clean? LOL.
1. Duran was virtually unbeatable at LW, generally regarded at the best at 135lb ever, yet he's not going to tag Floyd clean?
2. Chavez was one of the most accurate punchers EVER, his straight rights were timed perfectly.
3. Pryor was a great boxer when he wanted to control his style more (beat Hearns in the ams, and narrowly missed the Olympic team due to a dodgy decision by all accounts).
4. Arguello was a master boxer with great accuracy.
Everyone gets tagged. Floyd has before now and all of those fighters above would tag him cleanly.
Again, I still dont believe that as much as others do. I still say that he could give both Pac & Cotto hell right now if he's still mentally & physicaly healthy. However, even if you dont want to say that, I still think his D was his D in that fight. Meaning, I dont think that part had much to do with size. Ive said that I dont think hardly any "righty" in history can hit a prime Mayweather clean. I think he has mastered that shit. From 130-140 I dont think anyone in history hits him clean if he's prime. You may have some big WW's like SRL & Hearns who could hit him some but I still dont even think there going to hit him super clean alot.
1. Marquez wasn't massively impressive at 135, even light punching Diaz rocked him! Above that is a joke really. Warm-up fight fair enough, but nothing more IMO. Although that is a different topic lol!
2. Several fighters would have hit Mayweather clean from 130-140 (Duran, Chavez, Arguello, Pryor are just some that pop straight into my head - all either quick and/or very accurate). His defence is excellent, but I do feel it has been overrated. Every fighter gets hit, no matter how good they are!
Am I the only person who doesn't use these idiotic words around here? I think that's actually the first time I've ever even typed that shit. I immediately feel 5 years old even typing any of them.
May the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain Knight you for such wise words.
The most sensible post I've read on here in months!
Hypothetical: If you could only choose a single boxer's entire collection of fights to view from this day onward and you had NO access to any other boxing, which boxers entire catalog of fights would you choose? The catch is that the boxer MUST have had at least one fight at some point between 2000 to 2009.
Everyone seems to have forgotten this point!
I'm going with Prince Naseem Hamed on this one. All his fights were extremely entertaining, from the crazy introductions and ring walks to his actual performance in the ring with that unique fighting style. He had 31 KO's in 37 fights, only 6 went the distance.
Mine would be Julio Cesar Chavez! Relentless aggression, accuracy, power, defence, movement, intensity, body punching, everything essentially!
You have a new account? I can't believe someone like you would get banned man. That's bizarre. But anyway, welcome back. :fing02:
Indeed! See your inbox...:)
2006 | 129 | Morales III | Ring Weight: 144 | Rehydration: 15 lbs
2007 | 130 | Barrera II | Ring Weight: 144 | Rehydration: 14lbs
2008 | 129 | Marquez II | Ring Weight: 145 | Rehydration: 16lbs
2008 | 134½ | Diaz | Ring Weight: 147 | Rehydration: 12½ lbs
2008 | 142 | De La Hoya | Ring Weight: 148.5 | Rehydration: 6½ lbs
2009 | 138 | Hatton | Ring Weight: 148 | Rehydration: 10 lbs
2009 | 144 | Cotto | Ring Weight: 149 | Rehydration: 5 lbs
144-149 = 5 lbs difference in three years.
The real difference is nowadays he isn't cutting so much weight. For the second Marquez fight, for example, Pacquiao would be cutting around 20 pounds (possibly more) from his walk-around weight. Less starvation appears to make Pacquiao a much better fighter. Is this abnormal? Personally, I don't think it's any cause for concern.
Excellent fighter with real chance of beating Floyd + Excellent fighter with greater resume than Floyd = Cheating scum appears to be the logic around here.
Those figures have been posted several times already, but the threads are usually buried by the "Pac must be hiding something" BS nonsense than is swamping the place atm.
Excellent point though. Agree 100%.
Thats the next part my friend.
Putting a beating on this fraud they call Pacman.
Ha, a fraud who surpassed Mayweather achievements in 5 years and a cert to win Fighter of the Decade?
moral victory for mayweather and boxing fans
show your love for each other NO HOMO:boxing:
Is that going to improve his already-lacking claim to greatness then? A moral victory?
What I noticed the most is Pac's neck. Pac's neck is fukking HUGE in the Cotto fight, looks like the neck of a fukking bear.
Clutching at straws I think. His neck is huge therefore he is on HGH.
I do think he has more muscle against cotto..but dont you think that would happen? Hes had 6 months or so to continue training at the new weight....hes not exactly going to stay the same....
I do find Pac amazing, and its amazing he is now fighting with all these people and KO'ing them..... And i do think the drug test is fine, but i still think floyd wanting it just before the fight or a few weeks before is just tryin to get under pacs skin..... a month before the fight....after press confrence and after the fight is surely good enough
I just think hes a 1 off.....like the michael phelps of swimming....
Excellent post.
I agree with the "getting under Floyd's skin" comment. It must annoy him how until 2/3 years ago he was a cert for Fighter of the Decade then Pacquaio comes along and claims all of the accolades.
There is now, until he takes the test
No. He has already agreed to take the blood tests you clown, the timing of the "cut-off" date is in question, not whether he will actually be tested.
Yes, he's a great fighter afraid to take a drug test, a good person outside of the ring who cheats on his wife. He's amazing.
I won't deny his accomplishments this decade are the best of anyone, but if he doesn't take the test, then who will believe any of it was legit?
Give that shit a rest. No evidence, no cloud hanging over previous fights.
Cyber Boxing Zone is a decent Boxing history site, maybe lacking in design and pretty ugly but decent/interesting info such as their lists of lineal champions etc
Cheers! Will look at that...
He's not underrated. He beat a shell of Hopkins. A 35 year old Hopkins wouldve owned him
A shell? GTFO!
Hopkins may not be the fighter he once was, but don't exaggerate.
actually, most of them are laughing right now that Pacquiao has been exposed over his fear of drawing blood close to a fight
While the rest of us laugh at Floyd's apparent fear of stepping into the ring with a prime, elite WW.
No no no no no, don't get me wrong. Not where I'm getting at. Just that Pacquiao clearly looks more muscular against Cotto, wondering if people see that.
And? People can pack on muscle naturally easily enough.
Being larger for Cotto than for Oscar would be expected too.
Pointless thread.