The Shoulder Roll: Toney or Mayweather?

No way in hell those cats hit him clean. That doesnt mean they wont win. Some of them can just throw 4 punhces to his 1 but they arent hitting him clean at all. Pryor & Chavez? No way. Those guys swing super wide. Youre not hitting Floyd with that wide ass shit. I just dont see any of them doing it, maybe for the exception of Duran who is a beast all around but those other guys cant. JMM KO a Diaz & Casamayor who have never came close to being stopped. He got rocked but JMM always gets rocked because his D sucks. There aint no one at WW that is going to stop him from landing like Floyd did. Just like Mosley is the worst matchup in boxing for Margarito. Floyd is also the worst matchup in boxing for JMM. I still thought JMM looked way better than people think but Floyd just didnt give him a real chance to show it. I think his speed was way better than people say, I think he had nice pop as he did catch Floyd with like 2 nice shots, and his counter punching was on point like always, only Floyd wasnt going to commit because of it No one on that list hits him clean? LOL. 1. Duran was virtually unbeatable at LW, generally regarded at the best at 135lb ever, yet he's not going to tag Floyd clean? 2. Chavez was one of the most accurate punchers EVER, his straight rights were timed perfectly. 3. Pryor was a great boxer when he wanted to control his style more (beat Hearns in the ams, and narrowly missed the Olympic team due to a dodgy decision by all accounts). 4. Arguello was a master boxer with great accuracy. Everyone gets tagged. Floyd has before now and all of those fighters above would tag him cleanly.

Toney... it looks more impressive at his lighter weightrs but still keeps him from getting his head taken at heavyweight. :boxing:

Watch Toney vs Iran Barkley for the best demonstration of the shoulder roll. That said, Floyds mastered his craft and his record speaks for itself. I'd say floyd, but I'd also say floyds the better fighter overrall as well. good call.....never watched that...

Based on his lack of competition? He makes it look good because his opponents suck, lol. Toney faced elites and used it to great effect. Listen here bitch. Pacquiao has been feeding on Mayweather's LEFTOVERS for the past 3 years and he we all know most likely he was aided by something in his bloodstream. How dare you say Floyd opponents suck when Manny has faced his leftovers?! And to beat Oscar not only he needed the roids but he needed Oscar drained of any boxing life. Way to go pactard. Btw you probably didn't even know Toney used a shoulder roll too and you most likely aren't sure who he is.

What Hernandez? Either way he didnt get hit much in either fight. The point though is that I said a "prime". he wasnt in his prime at that time. I said that he's mastered it now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7ZaVdXMms&feature=related This 1.. in round 3-4-5 he tries to trade and is getting hit a LOT. One of my fav fights of floyds.. when he got his hand hurt tho, he got on the bike, nothing wrong with that, but killed the momentum of the fight. Got his nose busted bad and had his eye swelled pretty good.

he rolls. just that he gets hit more than mayweather hahha

james toney for sure. he counters with it

Finally some credit for my man big tone!!! I think what he did in the game was of the hook dude is a beast... Wish there was another up and coming like him. This guy feared no one and was down for what ever where ever this was no drama in his game!!!

Sigh.. go watch floyd against hernandez prior to the hand break. he was getting TAGGGGGED, even had his nose banged up badly. You guys are overrating floyds defense because his recent opponents haven't been as game. What Hernandez? Either way he didnt get hit much in either fight. The point though is that I said a "prime". he wasnt in his prime at that time. I said that he's mastered it now

No way in hell those cats hit him clean. That doesnt mean they wont win. Some of them can just throw 4 punhces to his 1 but they arent hitting him clean at all. Pryor & Chavez? No way. Those guys swing super wide. Youre not hitting Floyd with that wide ass shit. I just dont see any of them doing it, maybe for the exception of Duran who is a beast all around but those other guys cant. JMM KO a Diaz & Casamayor who have never came close to being stopped. He got rocked but JMM always gets rocked because his D sucks. There aint no one at WW that is going to stop him from landing like Floyd did. Just like Mosley is the worst matchup in boxing for Margarito. Floyd is also the worst matchup in boxing for JMM. I still thought JMM looked way better than people think but Floyd just didnt give him a real chance to show it. I think his speed was way better than people say, I think he had nice pop as he did catch Floyd with like 2 nice shots, and his counter punching was on point like always, only Floyd wasnt going to commit because of it Sigh.. go watch floyd against hernandez prior to the hand break. he was getting TAGGGGGED, even had his nose banged up badly. You guys are overrating floyds defense because his recent opponents haven't been as game.

1. Marquez wasn't massively impressive at 135, even light punching Diaz rocked him! Above that is a joke really. Warm-up fight fair enough, but nothing more IMO. Although that is a different topic lol! 2. Several fighters would have hit Mayweather clean from 130-140 (Duran, Chavez, Arguello, Pryor are just some that pop straight into my head - all either quick and/or very accurate). His defence is excellent, but I do feel it has been overrated. Every fighter gets hit, no matter how good they are! No way in hell those cats hit him clean. That doesnt mean they wont win. Some of them can just throw 4 punhces to his 1 but they arent hitting him clean at all. Pryor & Chavez? No way. Those guys swing super wide. Youre not hitting Floyd with that wide ass shit. I just dont see any of them doing it, maybe for the exception of Duran who is a beast all around but those other guys cant. JMM KO a Diaz & Casamayor who have never came close to being stopped. He got rocked but JMM always gets rocked because his D sucks. There aint no one at WW that is going to stop him from landing like Floyd did. Just like Mosley is the worst matchup in boxing for Margarito. Floyd is also the worst matchup in boxing for JMM. I still thought JMM looked way better than people think but Floyd just didnt give him a real chance to show it. I think his speed was way better than people say, I think he had nice pop as he did catch Floyd with like 2 nice shots, and his counter punching was on point like always, only Floyd wasnt going to commit because of it

Again, I still dont believe that as much as others do. I still say that he could give both Pac & Cotto hell right now if he's still mentally & physicaly healthy. However, even if you dont want to say that, I still think his D was his D in that fight. Meaning, I dont think that part had much to do with size. Ive said that I dont think hardly any "righty" in history can hit a prime Mayweather clean. I think he has mastered that shit. From 130-140 I dont think anyone in history hits him clean if he's prime. You may have some big WW's like SRL & Hearns who could hit him some but I still dont even think there going to hit him super clean alot. 1. Marquez wasn't massively impressive at 135, even light punching Diaz rocked him! Above that is a joke really. Warm-up fight fair enough, but nothing more IMO. Although that is a different topic lol! 2. Several fighters would have hit Mayweather clean from 130-140 (Duran, Chavez, Arguello, Pryor are just some that pop straight into my head - all either quick and/or very accurate). His defence is excellent, but I do feel it has been overrated. Every fighter gets hit, no matter how good they are!

Very impressive stuff, but hard to use as evidence when JMM was clearly outmatched at such a high weight! Again, I still dont believe that as much as others do. I still say that he could give both Pac & Cotto hell right now if he's still mentally & physicaly healthy. However, even if you dont want to say that, I still think his D was his D in that fight. Meaning, I dont think that part had much to do with size. Ive said that I dont think hardly any "righty" in history can hit a prime Mayweather clean. I think he has mastered that shit. From 130-140 I dont think anyone in history hits him clean if he's prime. You may have some big WW's like SRL & Hearns who could hit him some but I still dont even think there going to hit him super clean alot.

I use to always say Toney but Floyd has mastered that shit now. I wont be upset if you give it to Toney though. You have to take into account that saying one guy is better at the shoulder roll doesnt mean that he's better at defense. I think Floyd is clearly the best guy at defense. He can do alot of things defensively where as Toney only can do the shoulder roll. What Floyd did to JMM was amazing though. He made JMM look like an amature trying to hit him. Size aside, that shit was impressive as hell when you rewatch it Very impressive stuff, but hard to use as evidence when JMM was clearly outmatched at such a high weight!

Floyd Mayweather, no question. Trust me, I'm unbiased! get the f*** outta here!

Floyd does it better. Go see him do a shoulder roll against N'dou for a whole 30secs, while N'dou is throwing flurries. Also Toney's shoulder roll isn't really a shoulder roll. He more or less moves his head up and down and to the sides. If incoming power shots come he ducks his head down, which leads to opponents hitting him behind the head alot, which is why his speech is slurry.

nah, hes a bettet boxer never a better fighter. hes not a fighter he doesnt fight. I meant boxer, my mistake. That said, he does fight when he needs to, go watch his fights with both hernandez's, corrales, gatti, n'dou, corley, mitchell, bruseles. He'll fight. And when he does let his hands go, its a thing of beauty.

True. I found it hard to judge accurately as I'm a big fan of both too! I thought the second fight was clearer due to McCallum improving markedly from the first. Both excellent demonstrations of technical ability as well. Not to many fights are held at that level. Great boxing boxing purist to enjoy, for sure. Im a bigger toney fan so i may have been a little biased unintentionally.

Watch Toney vs Iran Barkley for the best demonstration of the shoulder roll. That said, Floyds mastered his craft and his record speaks for itself. I'd say floyd, but I'd also say floyds the better fighter overrall as well. nah, hes a bettet boxer never a better fighter. hes not a fighter he doesnt fight.

I use to always say Toney but Floyd has mastered that shit now. I wont be upset if you give it to Toney though. You have to take into account that saying one guy is better at the shoulder roll doesnt mean that he's better at defense. I think Floyd is clearly the best guy at defense. He can do alot of things defensively where as Toney only can do the shoulder roll. What Floyd did to JMM was amazing though. He made JMM look like an amature trying to hit him. Size aside, that shit was impressive as hell when you rewatch it