Calzaghe's defense streak vs. Bernard's defense streak?

[Bozo_no no]

I've never seen 'Eric Lucas', 'Anthony Mundine', 'Mikkel Kessler' or 'Danny Green' fight. Maybe they were great fighters who could of beaten Calzaghe, if you say so, and would of been better on his resume than Jones Jr or Tarver but I've never seen those guys fight and barely heard anything of them and I'm a fan of boxing.. so, I don't know.

I'm really suprised you call yourslef a boxing fan and haven't seen those guys fight.

If anything, it shows how your opinion on what their worth is means next to nothing.

All of them were viable Suppermiddleweight fights Calzaghe didn't take.

You can tell me you don't think any of them mattered all you want.

In the end, Joe wasted his time with fighters a notch down from guys you feel that way about.

More evidence his resume was sub par at best.

[GEOFFHAYES]

Ottke does count, because I don't buy that such a big fight was available (like many others) and that it was completely Ottke's fault it didn't come off.

I always get a list of excuses from Calzaghe's fans about why many of those fights didn't come off. And if it was once or twice I could see it. But when he spent the better portion of his career having fights not come off and missing countless opportunities to face better competition than he did, he loses the benefit of the doubt.

There is no way those many match ups, plus dreamed of match ups like Jones, Hopkins, Clinton Woods, Glen Johnson ...

all didn't come off and I'm supposed to buy that everyone was ducking Calzaghe and not vice versa, ESPECIALLY when FRANK WARREN was his Manager.

Sorry, as per usual, you have fights Calzaghe didn't take accompanied by nothing but excuses. Doesn't fly.

After seeing what he did to Lacy, is that not enough proof that none of it was Calzaghe's fault?

As for Calzaghe's 'fans', he barely had any outside of Wales. I'm not a fan of his, I just like informing people of the Truth.

Calzaghe was largely seen as a bum in the American media, yet Jones Jr, Tarver, Ottke etc saw his fights and knew otherwise.. would YOU of fought Joe Calzaghe if everybody thought he was a joke and you had everything to lose? I know I wouldn't!

[GEOFFHAYES]

I'm really suprised you call yourslef a boxing fan and haven't seen those guys fight.

If anything, it shows how your opinion on what their worth is means next to nothing.

All of them were viable Suppermiddleweight fights Calzaghe didn't take.

You can tell me you don't think any of them mattered all you want.

In the end, Joe wasted his time with fighters a notch down from guys you feel that way about.

More evidence his resume was sub par at best.

Your trying to tell me those guys were a notch up from the Reid's, Starie's, Sheika's, Woodhall's, Veit's, Brewer's, Mitchell's and Lacy's? Sorry, I'm not buying it!

[Bozo_no no]

After seeing what he did to Lacy, is that not enough proof that none of it was Calzaghe's fault?

As for Calzaghe's 'fans', he barely had any outside of Wales. I'm not a fan of his, I just like informing people of the Truth.

Calzaghe was largely seen as a bum in the American media, yet Jones Jr, Tarver, Ottke etc saw his fights and knew otherwise.. would YOU of fought Joe Calzaghe if everybody thought he was a joke and you had everything to lose? I know I wouldn't!

Please, you're a big fan. At least admit it.

2nd, one fight doesn't wash away a career of meidocrity.

Lacy was a bad style match up. Many of the scrubs Calzaghe fought put up a better fight.

That doesn't write off the list of fighters he didn't fight either.

Sorry, you'll have to try a bit harder.

[PATO 1]

calzaghe got a lucky decision vs reid then never gave him a re-match

[Bozo_no no]

Your trying to tell me those guys were a notch up from the Reid's, Starie's, Sheika's, Woodhall's, Veit's, Brewer's, Mitchell's and Lacy's? Sorry, I'm not buying it!

I'm telling you his missed out on fighting a significant number of highly ranked suppermiddleweights in the time he was there with the least important of the 4 major titles.

And once again, Take out Lacy's name.

We've been over and over how that's one fight, 13 years into his career.

It was a good job, but it doesn't erase what happned (and didn't happen) before it.


And we've just established your opinion isn't very informed with your admision you've never seen many of those guys fight even once.

[Abe Attell]

Cant disagree with just about anything anyone is saying but do keep in mind it took Bernard a long long time to unify the titles, its not like he had 15 title defenses as the undisputed champ...he held what could be considered a paper title for a long time.

I don't think you can blame Bernard for that, he didn't want to "play ball" or in other words, sell out to the promoters like Don King...he called out everybody after he won the title, trying to setup the matchups, but nobody took the bait...Hopkins was pushed aside for a long time till Tito came along with Don and they both thought they would push right through Hopkins, they were wrong...Hopkins was the Undisputed Champion, he knew, but they didn't.

[Abe Attell]

Echols gave Hopkins his toughest fight, yet Brewer anihilated Echols and Calzaghe took Brewer apart, for example..


Reid, Starie, Sheika, Woodhall, Veit x 2, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy.

didn't Brewer lose to Echols???

And wasn't this all after Bernard beat up Echols twice

[GEOFFHAYES]

Please, you're a big fan. At least admit it.

2nd, one fight doesn't wash away a career of meidocrity.

Lacy was a bad style match up. Many of the scrubs Calzaghe fought put up a better fight.

That doesn't write off the list of fighters he didn't fight either.

Sorry, you'll have to try a bit harder.

I've never been a fan of Calzaghe, I think he's a boring guy who lacked charisma.

A career of mediocrity? Well, I think when people look bad in 100 years at Calzaghe's career DVD's they'll appreciate him a lot more than he's appreciated now. Forgetting the Reid, Thornberry, Starie and Ashira fights where he was fighting with a broken hand, and some of the defenses he had to make to keep his world championship while waiting for Jones Jr, Tarver etc to accept a fight, he's been in a lot of exciting fights on put on a lot of spectacular performances. Look at the time he fought Mark Delaney, they were on a level playing field and whoever won were going on to big things, Delaney was a very good prospect, highly rated, they both said they were going to go war - Joe nearly took out MD in the first, and it was all over in five. Delaney was never the same after that. Then what he did to Eubank was absolutely, unbelievable. Who thought anybody would ever be able to treat Eubank like that?? Then you've got the Sheika fight, another poor performance and his career might be over, but he got his hand mended and went to war. Veit was considered the 'next big thing' in Germany and they tipped him to win.... Brewer, what a fight! Exciting throughout, both guys going to war and a credit to the game (unlike Jones Jr and Hopkins who put you to sleep rather trying to put opponents to sleep), getting off the floor to beat Mitchell (what was it Mitchell said? "I've never been hit so hard so often!"), etc, I don't think his career will be seen as mediocre in 100 years time.

[Grimgash]

Ottke and Beyer wanted nothing to do with Joe and it was either Echols or Brewer, Echols fell through so they got Brewer.

As for the others, who the hell are they?? Lol!

Kessler is the man whos going to bury Beyer in thier meeting. Have you watched boxing these last few years? = (