Lineal Heavyweight title is "bull****"?

[aboutfkntime]

What do you mean, it doesn't go back to Sullivan? Sullivan is recognised as the first Lineal Heavyweight champion. That is fact. You can't just cry about facts and pretend that they aren't real. Sullivan reigned in the late 19th century. Assuming you were born after the millenium, that would make my statement that the Lineal predates you by over 100 years correct.

you know what they say about people who assume

read that post again... this time, SLOWLY...

stop confusing lineage, with the lineal championship

I agree with you regarding boxing lineage

but the lineal championship is just a silly casual-fan concept

dumb millennial

[N/A]

oh, shlt... you just ran out the back door

No, you are running by changing the subject to something that has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing.

But since it's so important to you, yes a lineal title can change hands even if the two fighters agree to weigh less than the division limit. A fight at 155 pounds is a fight in the middleweight division, so yes the lineal middleweight champion's lineal title is at stake.

[N/A]

Even if he wasn't exactly signed into a contract at that exact time is irrelevant. Who is to say that they were not negotiating?

DUVA ASKED for the Kovalev/Pascal winner be named mandatory. DUVA ASKED that the Kovalev/Pascal winner be given a 50/50 split.

The WBC granted the very unusual request and Stevenson embraced the order and was gung ho about doing the fight.

A purse bid was ordered. A mandatory fight. 50/50 split. With Stevenson saying HELL YES!

And then Kovalev ducked the fight and went and resigned with HBO and used it as an excuse to duck Stevenson.

[Marchegiano]

you know what they say about people who assume

read that post again... this time, SLOWLY...

stop confusing lineage, with the lineal championship

I agree with you regarding boxing lineage

but the lineal championship is just a silly casual-fan concept

dumb millennial

You've made some good point in this thread, and I don't want you to take this offensively, but lineage vs lineal is very much a practice in semantics. I assume you know what a colloquial is. I'm quite sure you do not bother to tell people who call fighters 'boxers' and 'punchers' all athletes in boxing are boxers and all boxers punch for a living.

Lineal, given it is fan made up bull****, is ill-defined, hence all the arguing. Also, that means it does mean lineage just as much as it doesn't. Eye of the beholder bud and to 'teach' the world the difference between is surely a never ending argument.

I've asked before, I've made threads specifically about a movement for defining lineal. Fans are not interested, they like it as is and want to argue.

So, I'd say if lineage has importance to you then make that the meaning of lineal to you. It's just as valid as any other explanation of lineal.

[soul_survivor]

Fair play. I figured there was a reason for your name saying that u seem like a knowledgable poster . Iam on the fence with the whole p4p topic myself but I admittingly still participate haha

I still participate in p4p discussions too but it is meaningless when there are unified/undisputed champions. I think p4p would be meaningless in the face of an undisputed heavyweight champion as it was for so long in the 20th century. As the heavyweight division splintered, p4p discussions and rankings became ever more important.

Btw, when it comes to lineal titles, in any division, I am not against these. I understand the significance, my point is that:

A. Fury can not be holder of any title after failing drug tests, being banned and retiring. If that were the case Rocky Marciano should still be recognised as lineal champ.

B. Americans on here, in the build up to the first fight labelled it a unification and a fight for the lineal title, based mainly on Wilder's proclamations and the promotion itself. Now that the lineal rubbish has taken a backseat, I am just curious if they still believe in it.

[aboutfkntime]

No, you are running by changing the subject to something that has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing.

But since it's so important to you, yes a lineal title can change hands even if the two fighters agree to weigh less than the division limit. A fight at 155 pounds is a fight in the middleweight division, so yes the lineal middleweight champion's lineal title is at stake.

plss off

Canelo was ranked the #1 middleweight on the planet because of lineage... which is ABSOLUTELY ABSURD... because he had never faced a middleweight opponent, and he had never weighed more than 155

if you think that Canelo should have been ranked ahead of Golovkin at middleweight... when he had never faced a middleweight opponent, and never weighed more than 155... then you need your head examined

that is pretty disgraceful in my opinion

#youareNOTdoingboxinganyfavors
#agendasarelikeass-holes,everyonehasone

[N/A]

if you think that Canelo should have been ranked ahead of Golovkin at middleweight...

I've offered no opinion on that and couldn't care less about middleweight ratings. You keep changing the subject to that because you now realize Kovalev blatantly ducked Stevenson.

[Marchegiano]

I still participate in p4p discussions too but it is meaningless when there are unified/undisputed champions. I think p4p would be meaningless in the face of an undisputed heavyweight champion as it was for so long in the 20th century. As the heavyweight division splintered, p4p discussions and rankings became ever more important.

Btw, when it comes to lineal titles, in any division, I am not against these. I understand the significance, my point is that:

A. Fury can not be holder of any title after failing drug tests, being banned and retiring. If that were the case Rocky Marciano should still be recognised as lineal champ.

B. Americans on here, in the build up to the first fight labelled it a unification and a fight for the lineal title, based mainly on Wilder's proclamations and the promotion itself. Now that the lineal rubbish has taken a backseat, I am just curious if they still believe in it.

Curious, if you're well aware all division come from the HW division why recognize lineages of these divisions given they can't have anything to do with a time before formalized weight divisions?

Or, to ask that a bit differently, outside of HW, when to other weight division lineages begin? The first man to claim a title at the weight in numbers or the weight in words? I mean, what's LW 135? let's just say it is anyway, is the first LW champion the first 135 or the first guy to claim lightweight champion?

As far as Marciano being the lineal champion, if he returned to boxing he would be. If Marciano's zombie ass came up out the dirt and said he's champion because no one ever beat him in the ring he'd only be doing what Corbett did only, you know, on a ridiculous time scale from beyond the grave.

You don't recognize the Maher, Fitz, Sharkey, Langford, Godfrey lineage do you? Of those guys the only HW champion or at least lineal HW champion is Fitzsimmons right?

But they won the title, they had the belt, they were called champion....until Corbet unretired and stripped them only to lose to Fitz.

So if Corbett can do it then why not Jeffries, Tunney, Marciano, Lewis, or Fury?

edit- quick note on Jeffries, I realize he didn't claim the title on his return, but, if he felt so inclined why couldn't he but Corbett could?

[Inspired]

I know in the UK it's common to just believe anything Hearn says, regardless of whether he's right or wrong.

US boxing fans don't have that level of devotion.

you are living in fantasy land...
in the uk people not only criticise EH..even the people he pays to interview him, directly challenge the things he says, look at ifltv interview with EH.

wilder on the otherhand couldnt take the fair commentary from paulie malignagi so ran over to fox sports.

[aboutfkntime]

You've made some good point in this thread, and I don't want you to take this offensively, but lineage vs lineal is very much a practice in semantics. I assume you know what a colloquial is. I'm quite sure you do not bother to tell people who call fighters 'boxers' and 'punchers' all athletes in boxing are boxers and all boxers punch for a living.

Lineal, given it is fan made up bull****, is ill-defined, hence all the arguing. Also, that means it does mean lineage just as much as it doesn't. Eye of the beholder bud and to 'teach' the world the difference between is surely a never ending argument.

I've asked before, I've made threads specifically about a movement for defining lineal. Fans are not interested, they like it as is and want to argue.

So, I'd say if lineage has importance to you then make that the meaning of lineal to you. It's just as valid as any other explanation of lineal.

interesting, just like I expected your reply to be

and just like all your other posts

this is how I see it bro...

there are two different things, that are being horribly confused

1) genuine boxing lineage
2) the lineal " championship "

boxing lineage, is the very dictionary definition of the word... no confusion possible

lineage
/ˈlɪnɪɪdʒ/
noun
1.
direct descent from an ancestor; ancestry or pedigree.

lineage, is the most important thing in boxing... and in truth, dates back even further than the great John L ... even further back than Figg (or Fig, however you prefer to spell it)... even further back than the Greeks...







Figg was a real character, I would love to hear your opinion on him... sword-master, spear-master, pugilist extraordinaire

digress

the other subject is... the lineal " championship ", or "sham-pionship" as I prefer to call it

no need to waste my time explaining the specifics of the lineal sham-pionship to a well-schooled guy you... but I pre-date that rubbish, put it that way

one, is everything... the other, is nothing

I would love to hear your thoughts about Figg

and also your thoughts about this post...

Canelo was ranked the #1 middleweight on the planet because of lineage...

1) despite the fact that he had never faced a middleweight opponent
2) despite the fact that he had never weighed more than 155
3) despite the fact that Golovkin was obviously the best middleweight on the planet

nobody gave Canelo a chance of beating Golovkin at that point

I remember one guy insisting that the fat red kid will lite that boy up like a christmas tree... but nobody else