Tweet
This post is probably going to go underappreciated but it is a good one.
lineal = undisputed maybe a bit semantical but no not really. It's just the title without the bodies' control. The original guys, like Sullivan, were very much disputed.
This ties in with the bold.
Fans have never agreed, we call Sullivan champion because most, not all, agreed he was. There were competing champions of his era.
Funny enough, you know, p4p is also just some fan made-up bull**** that's lost its way and has nothing to do with its original meaning too.
The first p4p is NP Dempsey, also of Sully's era. Dempsey was a MW and it was said of him if not for size he'd be the HW champion. So they started calling him p4p.
Just like lineal, p4p used to transfer when a man beat the man. That lasted until Bob Fitzsimmons became the next p4p and lost to Jeffries because Jeffries needed no extra accolade about if weight made no difference. So p4p took on a new meaning.
finally, the bodies came in for a reason, people wanted them around at first. Most of who we call lineal or would call lineal had never ever heard of the idea of lineal and are given lineal status posthumously. Marciano is definitely a lineal but Marciano doesn't know that. So even the historical perspective is muddied by fan opinion and misconception.
Sullivan's era gives no ****s about ranks. Guys who fight for the title are picked as worthy challengers by the champ himself. Guys who fight for vacant titles were picked by the champ going into retirement himself. rank 1 and 2 fighting one another doesn't have anything to do with Sullivan's era. But, many believe that's how lineal is passed after a retirement BECAUSE no one was talking about lineal when Tunney or Marciano retired or when Ali was stripped. So to justify their passing the lineage on fans had to come up with a reason decades after the fact. That reason has more to do with sanctioning body culture than a title w/o bodies or a title reflective of Sully's era.
Good post bud.
Edit- Dumbass me, I forgot to pose the question that inspired me to respond in the first place. Did Sullivan become HW champion when he beat Paddy Ryan in 1882, Dominick McCaffrey in 1885, or Jake Kilrain in 1889? Sullivan's own inauguration is debatable.
lineal = undisputed maybe a bit semantical but no not really. It's just the title without the bodies' control. The original guys, like Sullivan, were very much disputed.
This ties in with the bold.
Fans have never agreed, we call Sullivan champion because most, not all, agreed he was. There were competing champions of his era.
Funny enough, you know, p4p is also just some fan made-up bull**** that's lost its way and has nothing to do with its original meaning too.
The first p4p is NP Dempsey, also of Sully's era. Dempsey was a MW and it was said of him if not for size he'd be the HW champion. So they started calling him p4p.
Just like lineal, p4p used to transfer when a man beat the man. That lasted until Bob Fitzsimmons became the next p4p and lost to Jeffries because Jeffries needed no extra accolade about if weight made no difference. So p4p took on a new meaning.
finally, the bodies came in for a reason, people wanted them around at first. Most of who we call lineal or would call lineal had never ever heard of the idea of lineal and are given lineal status posthumously. Marciano is definitely a lineal but Marciano doesn't know that. So even the historical perspective is muddied by fan opinion and misconception.
Sullivan's era gives no ****s about ranks. Guys who fight for the title are picked as worthy challengers by the champ himself. Guys who fight for vacant titles were picked by the champ going into retirement himself. rank 1 and 2 fighting one another doesn't have anything to do with Sullivan's era. But, many believe that's how lineal is passed after a retirement BECAUSE no one was talking about lineal when Tunney or Marciano retired or when Ali was stripped. So to justify their passing the lineage on fans had to come up with a reason decades after the fact. That reason has more to do with sanctioning body culture than a title w/o bodies or a title reflective of Sully's era.
Good post bud.
Edit- Dumbass me, I forgot to pose the question that inspired me to respond in the first place. Did Sullivan become HW champion when he beat Paddy Ryan in 1882, Dominick McCaffrey in 1885, or Jake Kilrain in 1889? Sullivan's own inauguration is debatable.
Comment