Lineal Heavyweight title is "bull****"?

[N/A]

Canelo was ranked the #1 middleweight on the planet because of lineage...

1) despite the fact that he had never faced a middleweight opponent

Canelo and Cotto both weighed in as middleweights. They were over 154, but not over 160. They were middleweights.

2) despite the fact that he had never weighed more than 155

155 is middleweight.

3) despite the fact that Golovkin was obviously the best middleweight on the planet

Canelo defended his lineal title against Golovkin and beat Golovkin.

[aboutfkntime]

Connect ancient Egyptian boxing to anything surviving today. You can't because it didn't spread. It has nothing to do with Greek boxing.

Punching another man doesn't make you connected to any sport.

My information isn't out of date, it's from better sources than Wiki.

There's a lot of fist fighting that happens through time, that doesn't make it boxing.

dueling with fists was never made illegal, boxing was.

Yes, you can see people punching one another, that sport either died or became something other than boxing. Boxing came from Greece.

punching a man with your fists, while evading his blows... IS the very dictionary definition of boxing

again, the dictionary... again, that is NOT semantics... it is boxing

Humans have fought in hand-to-hand combat to the death since living in caves, but the earliest recorded evidence of fist-fighting competitions, according to Encyclopedia Britannica, was found on “Ancient Sumerian reliefs discovered in modern-day Iraq which were created in the 3rd millennium BC in the Mesopotamian nations of Assyria and Babylonia, and in Hittite art from Asia Minor.”

there is no justification whatsoever to suggest that one of the following pictures do not portray boxing






both pictures show the same thing... boxing

[aboutfkntime]

I felt like just saying better than wiki was ****ish but at the time I didn't have a good book come to mind. Gardiner, though massively respected, is a bit Hellenic-centric and supposses the Greeks were the first to make a sport of it, which is nonsense. I knew I didn't want to name him or his book but couldn't think of one and then forgot about it and never did plug in a suggestion.

Sport and Spectacle in the Ancient World by Donald G. Kyle seems to be what you want I reckon.

There is acknowledgement of boxing sports prior to our boxing sport in that book.

My point though, and the book won't say it directly by will make this point very clear, is boxing, if we're going to call all punching sports boxing, may have existed before the Greeks but Greek boxing is the boxing that exists presently. It did not die, it left Hellenic society and most of Europe for a long time then it came back through Anglo interest and Russian interaction. It's one long sport whereas at best Sumerian or Minoan or Egyptian boxing died rather than evolved.

Or it didn't. It's actually an avenue of research I've been working on. The forms of 'boxing' that are disconnected from our boxing but survive.

Look at Dambe:



Now realize this sport is not our sport. You have to recognize that. Sure, we can call it boxing, I've no issue with that, but, credit where credit's due, our sport came from Greece. It began prior to our sport and has existed unbroken the entire time our sport has existed, but, it did not inspire out sport, these cultures did not mix, the Greeks new nothing of Nigerians, they were all Ethiopians to the Greeks.

I'd agree it's a form of boxing but disagree it has anything to do with our lineage or rather the sport most think about when talking about 'boxing''s lineage.

yea I am familiar with Dambe, I have a documentary by Robert Sepehr

it is closer to MMA than boxing... they kick, and only glove one hand

the glove used to contain glass shards

very similar in principle to the cestus

[aboutfkntime]

Canelo and Cotto both weighed in as middleweights. They were over 154, but not over 160. They were middleweights.

155 is middleweight.

Canelo defended his lineal title against Golovkin and beat Golovkin.

Cotto weighed 153 you wanker !!!

Canelo was ranked the #1 middleweight on the planet simply because of lineage...

1) despite the fact that he had never faced a middleweight opponent
2) despite the fact that he had never weighed more than 155
3) despite the fact that Golovkin was obviously the best middleweight on the planet

[N/A]

uh, not quoting anyone here, but...

Fans would have been much better off with Don King as the only promoter in boxing and there was nothing wrong with the WBC catering to the promoter who was making most of the big fights. The WBC has always tried to attach itself to big fights and facilitate big fights whenever possible. Big fights are good for the fans. I’d rather have a sanctioning body trying to make big fights than selling rankings and winding up with a bunch of nobodies fighting each other for “world” titles.

People can insinuate all they want that King bribed the WBC, but there is zero evidence of that. Whereas we know absolutely for a fact, admitted by Arum himself, that in the WBA and IBF, the only way to get ratings was to buy them. Arum has worked with the WBC for 50 years and has never accused them of anything of that nature.

[NORMNEALON]

I still participate in p4p discussions too but it is meaningless when there are unified/undisputed champions. I think p4p would be meaningless in the face of an undisputed heavyweight champion as it was for so long in the 20th century. As the heavyweight division splintered, p4p discussions and rankings became ever more important.

Btw, when it comes to lineal titles, in any division, I am not against these. I understand the significance, my point is that:

A. Fury can not be holder of any title after failing drug tests, being banned and retiring. If that were the case Rocky Marciano should still be recognised as lineal champ.

B. Americans on here, in the build up to the first fight labelled it a unification and a fight for the lineal title, based mainly on Wilder's proclamations and the promotion itself. Now that the lineal rubbish has taken a backseat, I am just curious if they still believe in it.

Agreed 110% you hit the nail on the head here.

[NORMNEALON]

[QUOTE=WBC WBA IBF;20326929]Canelo and Cotto both weighed in as middleweights. They were over 154, but not over 160. They were middleweights.




155 is middleweight.

155 is 100% middleweight altho iam not gonna use that fact to credit canelos catch weight fase . It is middleweight , but middleweight with an agenda haha .

[Boxing Goat]

Then why didn't he go through with the fight after being given everything he asked for?

Because he was an HBO fighter at the time and was being paid handsomely by them and had he taken that fight, he would have given that up. Not hard to get really

[Marchegiano]

punching a man with your fists, while evading his blows... IS the very dictionary definition of boxing

again, the dictionary... again, that is NOT semantics... it is boxing




there is no justification whatsoever to suggest that one of the following pictures do not portray boxing






both pictures show the same thing... boxing

I have no clue how you've misconstrued semantics to mean anything bud definition thumping.

That is my point, all you're doing is definition thumping. You can't relate Egypt to present boxing because it is unrelated.

[pillowfists98]

The Lineal title has been vacant since Lewis retired.