Who should be P4P best Pac or Floyd?

[Dirt E Gomez]

I knew someobody was eventually going to point that out. Use common sense people. Their record doesn't matter once they've proven their ability. If they go untested for a large majority of their career, that's one thing, but it's not as though Floyd has been facing bums for 10 years and had 1 big name fight.

The p4p scale is based around the perfect world that everybody would be equal and then fight. Floyd is #1 regardless of recent fights with less then stellar competition. Obviosly you need some names on your Resume to be high on the p4p list, but that's just to see if they can compete with other top fighters.

[Smokin']

the term 'p4p' was first used with Benny Leonard (and old school lightweight) who was beating up welterweights and they said "with everything equal, he was the best". Only problem was, he was fighting the best and Floyd is not. Like I said, I have a problem with people calling Floyd number 1 because when your number 1, you fight the best. Simple as that.

[amagnin]

You seriously think he has a better resume than Winky and Paquiao. That is a ridiculous statement.

No it isn't. Winky has beaten Trinidad (at MW when he is really a WW and he was destroyed by Hopkins 2 fights earlier then retired for a year); Shane Mosley twice (at 154 clearly not his best weight); and a draw with Jermain Taylor (got to call it how it went down even if I disagree). Winky also has a loss to Vargas. Pac has beaten Morales, Barerra and drew with JMM. He was KO'd by Singsurat and drew with Agapito Sanchez even though Sanchez had 2 points deducted. He was UD'd by Morales when Morales was at his best as well. Pac's win against Morales was directly after Morales had lost to Raheem. Now if you are going to criticize Floyd for fighting Judah, got to do the same for Pac. Now Floyd hasn't fought as good of competition RECENTLY. But as far as I can tell his skills haven't diminished any so why should I drop him in the p4p ranks? Floyd has beaten Corrales (undefeated at the time); Castillo twice; Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Genaro Hernandez and some other good fighters I won't even mention because Pac has similar names. So career wise, Floyd is at least their equal in terms of competition and there is no question in my mind that at a similar weight Floyd beats Pac. I question whether Floyd could beat Winky at a similar weight so I have no problem with either one of them being number one. But Pac is clearly behind them at 3.

[Easy-E]

You seriously think he has a better resume than Winky and Paquiao. That is a ridiculous statement.

He has faced more World champions then both.

Combined.

[Bogler]

No it isn't. Winky has beaten Trinidad (at MW when he is really a WW and he was destroyed by Hopkins 2 fights earlier then retired for a year); Shane Mosley twice (at 154 clearly not his best weight); and a draw with Jermain Taylor (got to call it how it went down even if I disagree). Winky also has a loss to Vargas. Pac has beaten Morales, Barerra and drew with JMM. He was KO'd by Singsurat and drew with Agapito Sanchez even though Sanchez had 2 points deducted. He was UD'd by Morales when Morales was at his best as well. Pac's win against Morales was directly after Morales had lost to Raheem. Now if you are going to criticize Floyd for fighting Judah, got to do the same for Pac. Now Floyd hasn't fought as good of competition RECENTLY. But as far as I can tell his skills haven't diminished any so why should I drop him in the p4p ranks? Floyd has beaten Corrales (undefeated at the time); Castillo twice; Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Genaro Hernandez and some other good fighters I won't even mention because Pac has similar names. So career wise, Floyd is at least their equal in terms of competition and there is no question in my mind that at a similar weight Floyd beats Pac. I question whether Floyd could beat Winky at a similar weight so I have no problem with either one of them being number one. But Pac is clearly behind them at 3.

i seriously think you're DLT's alt, who created the thread "PAC is Not P4P #1!". your choice of words and examples are very very similar, if not the same.

why bring up Pac's loss 7yrs ago? damn, that fight was in the first half of his career, he was still a flyweight back then!

[jai mari078]

No it isn't. Winky has beaten Trinidad (at MW when he is really a WW and he was destroyed by Hopkins 2 fights earlier then retired for a year); Shane Mosley twice (at 154 clearly not his best weight); and a draw with Jermain Taylor (got to call it how it went down even if I disagree). Winky also has a loss to Vargas. Pac has beaten Morales, Barerra and drew with JMM. He was KO'd by Singsurat and drew with Agapito Sanchez even though Sanchez had 2 points deducted. He was UD'd by Morales when Morales was at his best as well. Pac's win against Morales was directly after Morales had lost to Raheem. Now if you are going to criticize Floyd for fighting Judah, got to do the same for Pac. Now Floyd hasn't fought as good of competition RECENTLY. But as far as I can tell his skills haven't diminished any so why should I drop him in the p4p ranks? Floyd has beaten Corrales (undefeated at the time); Castillo twice; Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Genaro Hernandez and some other good fighters I won't even mention because Pac has similar names. So career wise, Floyd is at least their equal in terms of competition and there is no question in my mind that at a similar weight Floyd beats Pac. I question whether Floyd could beat Winky at a similar weight so I have no problem with either one of them being number one. But Pac is clearly behind them at 3.

I agree that Paq should not be #1. I would say Winky over both of them in my opinion. I agree with you that Winky was the bigger man at that weight, but Trinidad is not a welter. He struggled to make weight at the welter limit. His best weight in my opinion was probably 154lbs. As he moved up he got stronger. Middleweight wasn't his best weight, but he was still legit, and this is coming from a Trinidad hater. Shane was definately the smaller man when they fought at 154, but Shane is a world calss fighter and there is no dis*****g that(once again not a big Mosley fan). I am a Vargas fan and even I have to say that Winky could arguably have been the winner in that fight. As far as the Taylor fight I still think he won that fight. He ****ed himself by taking the last round off, but Taylor didn't do much either. i don't see that you could give Taylor that round, it should have been an even round.(neither guy deserved to win that round) As far as Paq, I am a huge Barerra fan and you can't make excuses bottom line is he dominated him. I was in shock and awe but I won't make excuses. He did draw with Marquez, but Marquez is a very good fighter and the fact that he was able to even get up and continue fighting is a tribute to him. He did lose the first Morales fight, but when you not only beat but knock Morales out, that is a statement. I will agree that maybe Paq should not be ahead of Floyd, but i think it should go Winky,Floyd, than Paq. I don't care what anyone says Floyd will not move up that much weight and beat Winky bottom line and you can't compare Floyd and Paq at this point because they are in to completely different weight classes and Paq is a lot smaller.

[Easy-E]

I agree that Paq should not be #1. I would say Winky over both of them in my opinion. I agree with you that Winky was the bigger man at that weight, but Trinidad is not a welter. He struggled to make weight at the welter limit. His best weight in my opinion was probably 154lbs. As he moved up he got stronger. Middleweight wasn't his best weight, but he was still legit, and this is coming from a Trinidad hater. Shane was definately the smaller man when they fought at 154, but Shane is a world calss fighter and there is no dis*****g that(once again not a big Mosley fan). I am a Vargas fan and even I have to say that Winky could arguably have been the winner in that fight. As far as the Taylor fight I still think he won that fight. He ****ed himself by taking the last round off, but Taylor didn't do much either. i don't see that you could give Taylor that round, it should have been an even round.(neither guy deserved to win that round) As far as Paq, I am a huge Barerra fan and you can't make excuses bottom line is he dominated him. I was in shock and awe but I won't make excuses. He did draw with Marquez, but Marquez is a very good fighter and the fact that he was able to even get up and continue fighting is a tribute to him. He did lose the first Morales fight, but when you not only beat but knock Morales out, that is a statement. I will agree that maybe Paq should not be ahead of Floyd, but i think it should go Winky,Floyd, than Paq. I don't care what anyone says Floyd will not move up that much weight and beat Winky bottom line and you can't compare Floyd and Paq at this point because they are in to completely different weight classes and Paq is a lot smaller.

Think about WInkys opposition.
His three big wins are his ONLY wins.
Hes only beaten 3 world champs.
Thats not the resume of a p4p numbner 1 fighter.

[jai mari078]

Think about WInkys opposition.
His three big wins are his ONLY wins.
Hes only beaten 3 world champs.
Thats not the resume of a p4p numbner 1 fighter.

Yea look at his opposition. He dominated Trinidad, beat Shane twice, and regardless of what people say he beat Taylor. Those three alone are already tougher than anyone Floys has fought. **** Shane and Trinidad will be in the Hall of Fame. Like I said i am a Vargas fan but he arguably could have won that fight and that is when Vargas was in his prime. Your gonna tell me that Castillo, Corrales,and Chavez compare to Trinidad or Shane. Castillo and Corrales are good fighters but they are not great. As much as I hate to give Trinidad that much credit because I can't stand him but I have to be honest and be objective about him. The difference is that Winky consitantly fights elite competition. Your talking about fights Floyd had years ago. Sooner are later people are gonna have to stop living in the past and talk about the present and what he has done lately.

[DarkSpyder]

I never understood what somebody's record, assuming they've proven anything, has to do with p4p status. Like, I seriously don't get it. The origin of p4p status was what fighter would beat who if everything was equal as weight and whatnot. Assuming Floyd's skills don't look diminished or any other fighter begins to look spectacular I don't see how it can change due to opposition.

That is exactly right. Good K coming

[GunStar]

P4P is based on skills though. It was based off Sugar Ray robinson. The theory is that if 2 fighters in different weight classes were to weigh the same, who would win? So it never was necessarily who fought the greater competition but who had the greater skills. Just think about it, whats hard for Pacman may be very easy for Floyd so u cant base that off on competition. Barrera and Morales may very well look like c level fighters if they fought the Wright,Mosley, and Mayweathers.

Good post! Everything you said is on the money.