Comments Thread For: Where Does Roy Jones Belong On The List Of Greatest Boxers?

[lion33lit]

[QUOTE=lion33lit;18478048]

To answer the author's question I won't rate RJJ as one of the true greats for one simple reason; the manner in which he responded to adversity - which is the very essence of boxing and the true measure of a fighter. This is the reason The SRR's, Ali's, Louis's and the Duran's are considered the greatest.. They came back from terrible losses, yada, yada, ect, ect..

Let's be clear. It wasn't being past his prime that caused RJJ's record to go from 47-1 (should have been 48-0) to 18-8 (w/ 5 knockout losses). That's bull****. It was Antonio Tarver.

Tarver took his confidence. Tarver took his soul. On an EPIC scale.. So much so that almost anybody could KO Roy after Tarver was done with him.
When Roy lost weight to come back down to fight Tarver, he claimed it took a toll on his body. It seems Tarver caught him at the right time - literally. Only Roy knows for sure if this is the case. That punch Tarver landed didnt land so cleanly, yet it had Roy on quiz street & then delusion ave. And quite frankly, Tarver has never looked as good as he did that night against anybody else

Hopkins then beat up a depleted Tarver when he took off weight after guest starring in one of Rockys movie.....Tarver looked like crap in that fight. I really dont know the truth, but its been downhill since Tarver.....Roy wanted to end his career by fighting a depleted Tyson then ride off into the sunset.....A determined Tarver changed all his plans.......big time.

I dont know what I did with this post....

[Luilun]

Actually Pac just had to win a welter weight title to go have gained 40 pounds as well, as his first fight was at 106.

Pac didn't win a title till 122

[stealthradon]

Pac didn't win a title till 122

He won the (112) flyweight title.

[IronDanHamza]

"Decline"

It's called aging.

Are you trying to say Roy Jones started getting KTFO left and right because he went into physical decline?

Yeah you decline when you age, right?

Absolutely or atleast it played a big factor. He was on the steady decline for years then rapid decline after the KO's.

[Luilun]

He won the (112) flyweight title.

If you say so but he didn't accomplish what Jones did and that's 40 pounds above your first Title win . Pac would have had to win the 160 pound title and that 154 pound title was a farce cause it was a 150 catch weight

[stealthradon]

If you say so but he didn't accomplish what Jones did and that's 40 pounds above your first Title win . Pac would have had to win the 160 pound title and that 154 pound title was a farce cause it was a 150 catch weight

No. In order to win a title at 40 pounds above your initial first title weight, Pac would have to win it at 152.
So he was 2 pounds off?
No matter that he gained almost half of his body weight, it's more impressive that RJJ gained 25%?

[billeau2]

Ray Robinson repeatedly came back to boxing as he was struggling to pay the bills in his later years and took unnecessary losses. Leonard also missed the spotlight and came back to take losses again against sub par competition.

So by that definition, RJJ, SRR and SRL are not all time greats.

Great Post.

And lets not forget guys like Moorer whom, after a great career, fought as journeymen to "pick up the pennies" as Ray Corso says. Part of boxing is for glory, for greatness, and part of boxing is the way men made a living... When we watch an impressario like James Toney in the ring, we know he is past his best, but we get to watch a fighter who has made the ring second nature.

When we evaluate "greatness" some things should work for the house, some for the fighter and some should be debated, as long as we are consistent. So, a fighter like Hopkins, who did fight competatively and beat great fighters later, should have that count for him... fighters who were past it should not have it count against them. When we look at Jones, he is a great fighter based on his performance up until a point that people can decide upon...perhaps the Riuz fight? whatever!

[billeau2]

?? Is that not the big knock on Tyson? That when "people stood up to him" he was nothing but a hollow bully? That's the specific criteria by which fans and analysts cite when reducing Tyson's value as an ATG. That is the consensus view.

If you're just stating your opinion I respect that but I've had this beaten over my head for too many years not to address your comment.

That view is overly simplistic for a number of reasons. First off intangibles like "bully", "heart" and "standing up to" alone do not constitute the basis for an objective view regarding fighter.

Liston and Tyson were both called bullies and in both cases, if we were to take a champion that would be the hardest to defeat in all history, in their primes, these guys would make certain short lists. Why is that? it is because when you watch Tyson at his best, and see the amount of things he is doing, how well he is doing them, the natural abilities he had and... when you understand how well he studied individuals like Dempsey, who he used as a model for his approach... the conclusion is undeniable regarding how good Tyson actually was.

One can chart a course and see at each point in the course, how things fell apart for Tyson and the subsequent affect on his performance. Ditto for Liston... so much so that lately several authors have researched his situation because it was unfair how he was characterized. We now know that his age was suspect (he may have been a lot older when he fought Ali) and many more things.

People who really know boxing look at tape and can point out to other people what fighters could do to be succesful. I am 54 years old and well remember that when i was watching the great Ali on television I used to hear about this incredible fighter who Ruled the roost back before Ali as a middleweight....Before this fighters name even came up inevitably it was said "This guy was so good he could punch while moving backwards." you obviously know I am talking about Robinson...the point is people were more knowlegable fans back then and still judged fighters by their skills and pluck! Judged by his ability Tyson was a formidable and highly skilled champion.

[A-Wolf]

Yeah you decline when you age, right?

Absolutely or atleast it played a big factor. He was on the steady decline for years then rapid decline after the KO's.

You should be in politics, Dan.

[A-Wolf]

That view is overly simplistic for a number of reasons. First off intangibles like "bully", "heart" and "standing up to" alone do not constitute the basis for an objective view regarding fighter.

Liston and Tyson were both called bullies and in both cases, if we were to take a champion that would be the hardest to defeat in all history, in their primes, these guys would make certain short lists. Why is that? it is because when you watch Tyson at his best, and see the amount of things he is doing, how well he is doing them, the natural abilities he had and... when you understand how well he studied individuals like Dempsey, who he used as a model for his approach... the conclusion is undeniable regarding how good Tyson actually was.

One can chart a course and see at each point in the course, how things fell apart for Tyson and the subsequent affect on his performance. Ditto for Liston... so much so that lately several authors have researched his situation because it was unfair how he was characterized. We now know that his age was suspect (he may have been a lot older when he fought Ali) and many more things.

People who really know boxing look at tape and can point out to other people what fighters could do to be succesful. I am 54 years old and well remember that when i was watching the great Ali on television I used to hear about this incredible fighter who Ruled the roost back before Ali as a middleweight....Before this fighters name even came up inevitably it was said "This guy was so good he could punch while moving backwards." you obviously know I am talking about Robinson...the point is people were more knowlegable fans back then and still judged fighters by their skills and pluck! Judged by his ability Tyson was a formidable and highly skilled champion.

You should start a blog.