Comments Thread For: Where Does Roy Jones Belong On The List Of Greatest Boxers?

[robertzimmerman]

But how do we judge greatness? Do we judge a fighter over the entirety of their career or do we take snapshots of their prime years and use that to gauge where they rank among the greats.

if we judge jones on the entirety of his career then hes not even top 100. he spent a good 14 years being a BUM. but we all know boxers are ranked based on their primes and everything else outside of that gets erased. when jordan came back with the wizards to be a shell of his former self it did damage to his overall career stats but it did absolutely nothing to his standing as the GOAT in that sport.

but if you accomplish something noteworthy when being past your prime then that is taken into consideration with your overall legacy. simply put we just ignore the bad and ugly things. when foreman knocked out moore he was decades past his best but that win enhanced his legacy. had he lost to moore it wouldn't hurt his legacy one bit.

in terms of "prime" jones and where does he rank. its all subjective theres nothing concrete or scientific about all time lists. IMO prime jones is top 20. not top 10. the wins people always allude to are hopkins (1993), toney (1994) and ruiz (2003).

IMO hopkins was not "prime" in 1993. beating hopkins around 2002-03 would've meant much more but they never agreed on a split. james toney throughout his career has had numerous issues with weight, so its not roys fault but it must be mentioned toney came into camp for the roy fight at 215 lbs with six weeks to go. after the weigh in he was hooked to an IV until the next day. thats why his body resembled a deflated ball during the fight. again not roys fault but it must be mentioned because people give tarver and johnson zero credit for beating roy citing his massive weight loss from HW.

roy weighed in 193 for ruiz (march 2003) then dropped to 175 for tarver (november 2003). meaning in eight MONTHS he dropped 18 lbs. Toney dropped 46 lbs in SIX WEEKS.

IMO roys best wins are
1. RUIZ .. this win is ripped apart by some that say ruiz was the sorriest HW ever. but roy made history that night. period. and ruiz did beat holyfield prior so..

2. TARVER 1.. this is one of my favorites in roys career because it showed him respond to adversity in the ring like a true great. he swept the championship rounds while being obviously gassed.

3. GRIFFIN 2.. many people felt griffin had exposed holes in roys game in their first fight. and he somewhat did because roy was clueless on the ropes and going backwards. this is something tarver applied in their fights. but roy ended it short and sweet.. and griffin did have TWO wins over james toney going in.

4. HOPKINS.. like i said i wouldn't consider hopkins "prime" in 1993 but it was still a significant win. in terms of how memorable it was. not so much. its a good fight to cure insomnia.

5. TONEY.. on paper this is jones best victory. i put it top five because it was significant. but in context its not that impressive. toney lost 46 lbs in six weeks. was hooked to an IV for a whole day before the fight. not blaming roy but hey it wasnt tarver and glen johnsons fault that jones suffered from losing weight either so..

and had his knockdown blow on calzaghe been full glove instead of full wrist then we're talking top 10 fighter (cuz joe would've been KO'd).. of course i dont give calzaghe credit for that win either because by his own admission jones was washed up at that point. and again we only factor post prime success not post prime failures. right or wrong thats how boxers are always analyzed.

Roy didn't weigh 193 for Ruiz, and he didn't have 8 months to lose the weight.

Yes, Toney had huge weight issues which can't be ignored. But losing body fat and losing muscle are 2 very different things.

Roy didn't just lose to Tarver and Johnson because of the weight, he lost because he was an ageing fighter with diminished reflexes. A split second makes a world of difference. Roy needed to either retire or adapt. But he didn't and he paid a heavy price.

[future hendrixx]

No amount of losses change what he did or take away what he achieved. Why would they tarnish anything? Did losses to Williams and McBride tarnish Tysons legacy? No.

RJJ is easily one of the greatest boxers ever. In his prime quite possibly THE goat.

tyson is a curious case because according to his diehard supporters none of his losses count lol.. i mean in his absolute prime the man got KO'd by a 42-1 underdog BUM. but hey i know he didn't train right, was ****ing too many hookers in japan blah blah.. and its common knowledge tyson was petrified of 41 year old george foreman in 1990-1991. the douglass loss not only tarnish tyson it finished him for good. he never regained his footing as the best heavyweight ever again. his "prime" lasted maybe two years of careful matchmaking. in terms of impact and excitement tyson is top 3. in terms of resume not even top 30.

[JLC]

It depends how you look at how to define a fighter - do you define a fighter on his whole career or the period of when he was a champion. To me The All Time Great are those when they reach the top they maintain it not those who fall from Grace then blame it on age and did not know when to quit for reasons of money or thinking they still have it. Therefore Roy Jones Jr can't go down as one of the all time Great.

I’m not a huge RJJ fan, but I wouldn’t judge him off his past prime losses no matter how many.

Wouldn’t Judge Ali by his losses to Holmes and Berbick.

Wouldn’t judge Leonard off his losses to Camacho and Norris.

Wouldn’t judge Jordan if his years w the Bulls. Olajuwon w the Raptors. Emmitt Smith w the Cardinals.

If Roy is not an ATG it’s because he lacks enough big names on his resume. Yes he was a human highlight reel but 99.999 percent of those highlights were against the closest thing to tomato cans that can’t be found in the grocery store. I think one was LITERALLY a cab driver.

Is that all his fault ? No. But nonetheless opposition plays a huge factor in your place on the ATG lists

[Luilun]

Roy Jones is TBE first middle weight to win a heavyweight title. he moved up 40 pounds plus to accomplish this feat. That mean Pacquiao would have to win a middle weight title to compare and Mayweather would have to have won the Super Middle weight or Light Heavy title

[future hendrixx]

Roy didn't weigh 193 for Ruiz, and he didn't have 8 months to lose the weight.

Yes, Toney had huge weight issues which can't be ignored. But losing body fat and losing muscle are 2 very different things.

Roy didn't just lose to Tarver and Johnson because of the weight, he lost because he was an ageing fighter with diminished reflexes. A split second makes a world of difference. Roy needed to either retire or adapt. But he didn't and he paid a heavy price.

but he did lol >>> http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Jo..._Roy_Jones_Jr.

toney lost 46lbs in six weeks. water, muscles whatever u wanna call it.. he was clearly not his best for that fight. period. not roys fault. but again it wasnt tarver and johnsons fault either.. his weight loss from HW is whats cited by the majority of fans and historians to explain his decline. this is the first time i read someone saying the weight loss had nothing to do with it.

[stealthradon]

You can rank Roy on what he did at MW and beyond that.

Beyond MW cannot be used for MW.
You can't just retroactively add to their career.

[daggum]

but he did lol >>> http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Jo..._Roy_Jones_Jr.

toney lost 46lbs in six weeks. water, muscles whatever u wanna call it.. he was clearly not his best for that fight. period. not roys fault. but again it wasnt tarver and johnsons fault either.. his weight loss from HW is whats cited by the majority of fans and historians to explain his decline. this is the firts time i read someone saying the weight loss had nothing to do with it.

blaming the weight is just silly. he won the first tarver fight and had 6 months to prepare for the rematch. its called getting caught. he got caught. he was looking really good until that moment in the fight and after that it was a wrap. he couldnt recover from getting ko'd. its like putting your hand on a hot stove on accident. now try to make yourself put your hand on that hot oven on purpose. you are going to hesitate and just the slightest hesitation in boxing is a world of difference.

[stealthradon]

Roy Jones is TBE first middle weight to win a heavyweight title. he moved up 40 pounds plus to accomplish this feat. That mean Pacquiao would have to win a middle weight title to compare and Mayweather would have to have won the Super Middle weight or Light Heavy title

Actually Pac just had to win a welter weight title to go have gained 40 pounds as well, as his first fight was at 106.

[Tonyu]

I’m not a huge RJJ fan, but I wouldn’t judge him off his past prime losses no matter how many.

Wouldn’t Judge Ali by his losses to Holmes and Berbick.

Wouldn’t judge Leonard off his losses to Camacho and Norris.

Wouldn’t judge Jordan if his years w the Bulls. Olajuwon w the Raptors. Emmitt Smith w the Cardinals.

If Roy is not an ATG it’s because he lacks enough big names on his resume. Yes he was a human highlight reel but 99.999 percent of those highlights were against the closest thing to tomato cans that can’t be found in the grocery store. I think one was LITERALLY a cab driver.

Is that all his fault ? No. But nonetheless opposition plays a huge factor in your place on the ATG lists

Hi JLC

I'm not saying RJJ was not the best in his era in his prime he was for a while he definitely belongs in HOF.

ALL I'm saying is his not a ATG for me you have to look at his whole career and that's his Prime and end career, sadly he did not walk away. The Ali and SRL knew when to walk away so just the blemishes at the end doesn't mean they aren't a ATG. when Roy started to decline and still fought on to be stopped by a shot Maccrinelli he erased himself from a ATG. that's my take I will not decide his status as a ATG the powers that be will, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me but make your own mind up. Let's see where the powers that be rate him it will be interesting.

[McNulty]

Probably the most physically gifted boxer ive ever seen.

Those were earned gifts. Mental even moreso. If Roy Sr. wasn't as brutal as he was Roy Jr. wouldn't have been shít. He would make Roy bob and weave under a board with nails facing down. Very medieval. Come up to high, get a board of spikes on your dome. Thats only one story. I'm sure there are even darker stories from that time.

It's very similar to the process of forced prodigies and parenting for financial gain in Europe from the 1700's. Many fathers would force their children to study musical instruments under the harshest conditions looking for the next Mozart or etc. People were poor and a child with great ability could get you out of the ******'s.

Nicolo Paganini's (the greatest violinist in history) father tied him to a chair when he was a boy for hours on end to study violin. He was tied up so much he got Rickets from his bones growing over the ropes he was tied up with.

Nicolo become so good that his peers said he sold his soul to the devil. This is where selling your soul for rock and roll came from.

Same sort of thing happened with Michael Jackson. Raising/Training a boy under really harsh conditions will produce something super special on a % level.