rank higher wlad or lennox lewis?

[VG_Addict]

He is the most athletic boxer ever.

He's not more athletic than Roy Jones Jr.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Klitschko's era is underrated because he beat European and Asian boxers who had no hype behind them in the USA. Also, because he beat everybody in convincing fashion he made the era look weak.

Lewis fought in the 90s when the division was full of Americans who will always get more fame than the fighters of similar quality from Europe or Asia.

If the likes of Chagaev, Pulev, Ibragimov or Povetkin were Americans they would get more hype behind them and Klitschko's wins over them would look better. They were all undefeated before Klitschko beat them. You only need to look at Wilder to see how much hype an undefeated American HW can get despite not beating anybody elite. In fact, those guys were more proven than Wilder is now before they faced Wlad.

The so-called "great eras" in boxing are usually defined by great rivalries. The Ali era was "great" because Ali lost to Frazier who then lost to Foreman who then lost ot Ali and they made each other look great. If Ali would have beaten both in convincing fashion ironically his legacy would suffer because then Frazier and Foreman wouldn't look so good.

Boxing is the only sport where you don't get credit for being a dominant champion. Boxing fans are so dumb that they only give you credit if you win in close wars against your opponents because then your opponents look better and ironically enhance your own status.

When Guardiola's Barcelona was beating everybody in football nobody complained that it was a weak era. Schumacher is regarded by many as the GOAT driver despite not having a real rival - because he made all the other drivers look mediocre.

In every other sport when they're looking at the greatest teams/athletes they're looking at how many titles the team/athlete has won and what kind of a run and longevity they/he/she had. They look at Messi and Ronaldo and see the crazy stats and give them credit, nobody is going to come up with crap like "it was a weak era".

Yet in boxing if you do a Schumacheresque run in your division then suddenly your era is weak and you're a nobody. In the eyes of the dumb boxing fans it would literally be better for Wlad if he let some of his opponents beat him or win rounds against him so he would make the era look better. Case in point, Wlad got more credit for his Joshua loss than for most of his big wins, because he made Joshua look good. If he had just dominated Joshua the way he dominated his opponents when he was in his prime, people would just declare Joshua a hype job and nobody would give him any credit. Just like they don't give him credit for the Haye win.

Floyd is the exception to this rule because he was moving up weightclasses and was facing established champions in those weightclasses. The thing is, you can't do that in HW. The fighters who Wlad faced weren't established champions because he prevented them to become established champions by being so dominant over them and snatching their ABC belts from them.

I agree with most of what you wrote. Except the part about dominant champions in other sports being exempt from getting discredited.

Even in your Ronaldo and Messi examples. Both are often said to be playing in a weaker era than the early 00's when some of the best players like Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho and Thierry Henry were all playing at their very best during their peak. Both Messi and Ronaldo get discredited by others for their accomplishments today because they didn't get to compete against those other great players.

Likewise, the same applies to tennis. Roger Federer gets discredited for winning most of his slams in a 'weaker era'.

Fact is, one can only do the best in their own era. If one boxer does better in their own era than another boxer does during a different era, then the former's feats are obviously more impressive and they subsequently deserve to be ranked higher. Unless someone can irrefutably prove that Wladimir Klitschko's era was weaker than other past heavyweight eras in terms of opponents that Wladimir Klitschko faced compared to opponents other past heavyweight champions faced. That 'weak era' criticism has the same value as me claiming I have a spaghetti monster as a pet. So far, nobody I've encountered has been able to prove this!

I've come across some ridiculous reproaches and retorts against Wladimir Klitschko's success. To the point where some of them are flat out so ignorant / inconsiderate of the big picture (success, accomplishments and record), that irrelevant things are pointed out. 'OH WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO DOESN'T THROW ANY UPPERCUTS. HE THEREFORE CAN'T BE AN ALL TIME GREAT'. Even though he has a more impressive heavyweight record than any past heavyweight champion who did specialize in throwing the uppercuts. The logic level is so low, that it's comparable to the logic level of a pre- teen or someone even younger. One has to wonder if those individuals should even be involved in boxing. Or be taking some logic courses and thinking courses before going out in society.

I can state one thing I've learnt from experience. Which is that I've never known fans of any other sport on average who are as ******ed and unintelligent as average / most boxing fans are. I can't even read through a few sentences without finding the most obvious and basic logical fallacy after logical fallacy on the comments of most posters in most boxing forums / threads.

[Mr Objecitivity]

He's not more athletic than Roy Jones Jr.

I think what that poster meant was 'the most athletic' by heavyweight standard.

[RedZmaja]

He's not more athletic than Roy Jones Jr.

For a heavyweight I meant.

Obviously if we go by P4P the smaller men can do more impressive stuff.

[VG_Addict]

I agree with most of what you wrote. Except the part about dominant champions in other sports being exempt from getting discredited.

Even in your Ronaldo and Messi examples. Both are often said to be playing in a weaker era than the early 00's when some of the best players like Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho and Thierry Henry were all playing at their very best during their peak. Both Messi and Ronaldo get discredited by others for their accomplishments today because they didn't get to compete against those other great players.

Likewise, the same applies to tennis. Roger Federer gets discredited for winning most of his slams in a 'weaker era'.

Fact is, one can only do the best in their own era. If one boxer does better in their own era than another boxer does during a different era, then the former's feats are obviously more impressive and they subsequently deserve to be ranked higher. Unless someone can irrefutably prove that Wladimir Klitschko's era was weaker than other past heavyweight eras in terms of opponents that Wladimir Klitschko faced compared to opponents other past heavyweight champions faced. That 'weak era' criticism has the same value as me claiming I have a spaghetti monster as a pet. So far, nobody I've encountered has been able to prove this!

I've come across some ridiculous reproaches and retorts against Wladimir Klitschko's success. To the point where some of them are flat out so ignorant / inconsiderate of the big picture (success, accomplishments and record), that irrelevant things are pointed out. 'OH WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO DOESN'T THROW ANY UPPERCUTS. HE THEREFORE CAN'T BE AN ALL TIME GREAT'. Even though he has a more impressive heavyweight record than any past heavyweight champion who did specialize in throwing the uppercuts. The logic level is so low, that it's comparable to the logic level of a pre- teen or someone even younger. One has to wonder if those individuals should even be involved in boxing. Or be taking some logic courses and thinking courses before going out in society.

I can state one thing I've learnt from experience. Which is that I've never known fans of any other sport on average who are as ******ed and unintelligent as average / most boxing fans are. I can't even read through a few sentences without finding the most obvious and basic logical fallacy after logical fallacy on the comments of most posters in most boxing forums / threads.

Boxing fans are also the most fickle of any sport fans. They hype up a fighter, and when he loses or looks bad, they say "Oh, he was never that good anyway".

I think boxing fans might have the shortest memory of any sports fans as well. Why else would they keep falling for hypejobs before they fight anyone decent? Baseball, American football and basketball fans at least have the excuse of following sports that are only played for a part of the year, while boxing is a year-round sport.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Love how idiots are bringing up Messi and Ronaldo now������
Pele scored more goals in the 58 World Cup than either of these have scored in World Cup’s during their entire career’s.
Levels.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Yeah, they're pretty much all the Boxing Scene White Supremacy crowd. If Wlad was from Ghana his nuthuggers wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole: They slobber all over his gonads SOLEY because he's a white Euro.

No matter how hard they try, the power of Wlad's whiteness can't make him an ATG.

I'm not a white European. Nor am I from Europe. Nor am I married to a white European. Nor do I have a home in mainland Europe. Nor do I speak any white European language (except English). So please try again!

Perhaps consider the possibility that nationality, race and tribalism have nothing to do with individuals admiring the Klitschko brothers as boxers and athletes? Perhaps, the fact that they are two of the only boxers in history to have PHD's, whilst employing two of the most scientific styles of boxing, whilst being two of the best ambassadors for the sport of boxing by being the most respectful, polite and well behaved are the reasons for why they are as admired by fans from all over the world. Not just from Europe.

You'd have a point if someone like Connor McGregor was getting credited for doing the things he does whilst other black boxers got berated for doing the same things. However, it's not hard to believe why the Klitschkos can have fans, supporters and admirers from all over the world. Not just from Europe!

[Poet682006]

I'm not a white European. Nor am I from Europe. Nor am I married to a white European. Nor do I have a home in mainland Europe. Nor do I speak any white European language (except English). So please try again!

Perhaps consider the possibility that nationality, race and tribalism have nothing to do with individuals admiring the Klitschko brothers as boxers and athletes? Perhaps, the fact that they are two of the only boxers in history to have PHD's, whilst employing two of the most scientific styles of boxing, whilst being two of the best ambassadors for the sport of boxing by being the most respectful, polite and well behaved are the reasons for why they are as admired by fans from all over the world. Not just from Europe.

You'd have a point if someone like Connor McGregor was getting credited for doing the things he does whilst other black boxers got berated for doing the same things. However, it's not hard to believe why the Klitschkos can have fans, supporters and admirers from all over the world. Not just from Europe!

Alts are notorious liars. Try again :hand9:

[Mr Objecitivity]

Alts are notorious liars. Try again :hand9:

Proof or it didn't happen! The world is big. People are bound to have similar views. Doesn't make those who share the same views to be alts of each other. Your claim about me being an alt of anybody is as baseless as me calling you to be an alt of somebody else.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Boxing fans are also the most fickle of any sport fans. They hype up a fighter, and when he loses or looks bad, they say "Oh, he was never that good anyway".

I think boxing fans might have the shortest memory of any sports fans as well. Why else would they keep falling for hypejobs before they fight anyone decent? Baseball, American football and basketball fans at least have the excuse of following sports that are only played for a part of the year, while boxing is a year-round sport.

Yup. Totally agree!