Who has the better legacy? Joe Calzaghe or Andre Ward?

[moochi]

Calzaghe by a country mile.

First thing first Ward never fought outside of his backyard. Calzaghe fought a whos who for about 10 years. Nuff said.

[moochi]

Ward's signature wins were Kessler and Kovalev
..
All at home and all extremely controversial...to an extent that had those fights been anywhere but at home he would have been DQ'd against Kessler and lost convincingly to Kovalev....there would never have been a rematch for which Ward would have been DQ'd anyway.

A spade a spade

[Cutthroat]

Prince was not a cruiserweight, he was a lightheavyweight, I know him personally, he still wouldn't be a cruiser. If you think fighting 2lb over the lightheavy limit makes you a cruiser you don't understand boxing. Billy Joe Saunders fought at 12 stone 5 once, does that make him a lightheavyweight? Now in your mind, Eubank had to drop from 188 to 168 in a week, but he didn't even weigh that much for the first Thompson fight. Read the interviews by Eubank about Thompson, he explains how much he had to overeat. BHop made he's debut at lightheavy, did every middle drag him down two divisions? This is nonsense and you know it. Yes Dawson was actually a titlist at light heavyweight. Guess why? Because it was he's actual real weight division. He dropped a whole division and he himself said he asked for 170 because he had such difficulties. Ward, in he's greatness, wasn't having any of it. Dawson didnt have any good wins at supermiddle,he didn't fight at lightheavy for non title fights like Eubank, he was a world champion at the weight, couldn't make Supermiddle properly and paid the price.

Prince was a light heavyweight, Eubank was not. Eubank fought his 4 out of his last 5 fights above 175lbs which is cruiser.

BJS & Hopkins were YOUNG and continued their career at 160 that's the difference, Eubank retired 1 year after fighting Calzaghe. Eubank was an older, shop worn fighter coming down 20lbs (1.43 stones) in weight in 1 week on the verge of retirement.


Compare that to Dawson, in his prime, a top 15 fighter in the sport. I doubt Eubank even ranked in the top 50 of all of boxing when Calzaghe fought him. Ward wrecked him.

[Kigali]

Calzaghe by a country mile.

First thing first Ward never fought outside of his backyard. Calzaghe fought a whos who for about 10 years. Nuff said.

Calzahge shamelessly ducked Glenn Johnson.

Sven Ottke not only fought Glenn he BEAT him

Ward > Calzhage

Slappy Joe never scored a KO over a guy like Kovalev....or anybody for that matter.

[Cutthroat]

Prime Calzaghe went life and death with journeymen? He didnt go life and death with Bika or Salem what in the world are you talking about? Reid was a world champion, and won it abroad, and according to your hero Froch was the hardest puncher he ever fought even as a faded fighter. Calzaghe still won clearly, stood in there, got hit and got on with it. Now I know you can't have a sensible conversation as you are trying to tell me that Pascal did better with Hopkins than Calzaghe. Hopkins was significantly older and schooled Pascal. No matter how you wish it was, Calzaghe beat Hopkins, who was faking low blows by the end. So you think Hopkins was the same fighter at 50 as he was against Calzaghe. He was the same at 50 as he was at 43? Don't make yourself look silly.Calzaghe clearly beat a guy at 43 on two cards that didn't belong to Miss Byrd, but Pascal couldn't beat a three year older Hopkins and Kovalev couldn't stop a seven year older Hopkins. And Smith didn't fight the Hopkins Calzaghe did but he might well have fought the same one Kovalev did. The monster Kovalev couldn't even do as well as a journeyman did against an old man. Ward was floored by a journeyman, beaten in the eyes of many by a man who's most significant win was a 50year old, has he's most significant win against the same man, dragged an actual decent threat at the time down a division in Dawson, beat Kessler on cuts in a foul fest and the other monster on he's record had he's best win against a chinny Bute, who's best wins were journeyman and who's done nothing significant since, and who's claim to fame is getting knocked out in the Amateurs through a headguard by Golovkin. Bute was fragile. Abraham was a middle who actually did go life and death with journeymen. Froch only had big wins against chinny fighters apart from Kessler who beat him when fresh but lost a close when when worn out. Kovalevs best win was a Hopkins 7 years older than the one who fought Joe and got stopped by a journeyman next time out. Yeah Ward is clearly superior to Calzaghe. Haha, give me a break.

Reid was a journeyman, he lost to Malinga with 10 losses and won the belt from other journeymen level fighters.

Prime Toney, prime Hopkins, prime RJJ, prime Benn, prime Eubank, etc. these were the best fighters from 160-168 and Joe fought NONE of them in their primes.

Joe was fighting the guys below their level, the Reids, Salems, Mitchells of the division. That would be like Ward ducking Kessler, Froch, Dawson, Kovalev, Barrera, Abraham, the best guys of his divisions and fighting the Paul Smiths, Alexander Brands, over and over and over again.

Salem has a 41% KO ratio and had Joe on ***** street.
Mitchell has a 54% KO ratio and had Joe on ***** street.

Hopkins last KO'd someone was in 2004 against De La Hoya, had Joe on ***** street in round 1.

Roy Jones Jr. hadn't stopped anyone in 6 years and had Joe on ***** street, Calzaghe down in round 1.

ALL of these men are far lesser punchers than Kovalev, Pascal, Dawson, Barrera, Froch, Abraham, Miranda, Brand, etc. If any of these men had hit Joe on the chin how exactly do you think he could've recovered? He would've been out COLD. I mean how the hell do you expect a guy getting dropped in round 1 by RJJ & Hopkins to go a full 12 with punchers like Kovalev, Barrera, Froch? When these guys hit you with those same shots you fall asleep.

[Kigali]

Reid was a journeyman, he lost to Malinga with 10 losses and won the belt from other journeymen level fighters.

Prime Toney, prime Hopkins, prime RJJ, prime Benn, prime Eubank, etc. these were the best fighters from 160-168 and Joe fought NONE of them in their primes.

Joe was fighting the guys below their level, the Reids, Salems, Mitchells of the division. That would be like Ward ducking Kessler, Froch, Dawson, Kovalev, Barrera, Abraham, the best guys of his divisions and fighting the Paul Smiths, Alexander Brands, over and over and over again.

Salem has a 41% KO ratio and had Joe on ***** street.
Mitchell has a 54% KO ratio and had Joe on ***** street.

Hopkins last KO'd someone was in 2004 against De La Hoya, had Joe on ***** street.

Roy Jones Jr. hadn't stopped anyone in 6 years and had Joe on ***** street.

ALL of these men are far lesser punchers than Kovalev, Pascal, Dawson, Barrera, Froch, Abraham, Miranda, Brand, etc. If any of these men had hit Joe on the chin how exactly do you think he could've recovered? He would've been out COLD.

They KNOW Ward is miles ahead of The Welsh Rabbit.

[champion4ever]

This one is razor thin close. Both sides makes good arguments to stake their claims. While it's true that Joe never crossed the pond to challenge opponents in their primes, but neither did Andre.

The only drawback on Calzaghe is that he never took many risks throughout his career. While he may have a longer and better resume than Ward, I still believe that Andre Ward achieved more in his shortened career than Joe Calzaghe ever had.

[Kigali]

This one is razor thin close. Both sides makes good arguments to stake their claims. While it's true that Joe never crossed the pond to challenge opponents in their primes, but neither did Andre.

The only drawback on Calzaghe is that he never took many risks throughout his career. While he may have a longer and better resume than Ward, I still believe that Andre Ward achieved more in his shortened career than Joe Calzaghe ever had.

That's one helluva drawback, and it blows the hell out of your "razor thin close" comment.

There is nothing close about Ward and Calzhage's resume.

[bluepete]

Prince was a light heavyweight, Eubank was not. Eubank fought his 4 out of his last 5 fights above 175lbs which is cruiser.

BJS & Hopkins were YOUNG and continued their career at 160 that's the difference, Eubank retired 1 year after fighting Calzaghe. Eubank was an older, shop worn fighter coming down 20lbs (1.43 stones) in weight in 1 week on the verge of retirement.


Compare that to Dawson, in his prime, a top 15 fighter in the sport. I doubt Eubank even ranked in the top 50 of all of boxing when Calzaghe fought him. Ward wrecked him.

This is just comedy now. Somehow Eubank was walking around at 188 for a fight at 177 and then drops to 168 and goes a hard paced 12 rounds even though for he's next fight with Thompson he comes in at 186 and said how he had to force feed himself both times for he's cruiser fights. This guy who's not top 50 then takes a Cruiserweight puncher and titlist 12 rounds and then 10 only losing by injury. Yeah, you could save yourself some time and just admit you hate Calzaghe.As for Dawson, he came down a whole weight from the division he held a title in and wasn't even given the catch weight he asked for and you think it's a good win. Now you try to talk about age and people being shop worn after claiming that 43 year old BHop is the same as 50year old BHop. Can't have it both ways.

[daggum]

Andre Ward better than Joe Calzaghe ...
Amateur highlights
• 2001 u. s. Amateur Middleweight Champion
• 2002 beneath nineteen National Championship
• 2003 u. s. Amateur lightweight Heavyweight Champion
• Won the sunshine Heavyweight medal for the u. s. at the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens, Balkan nation turning into the primary yank boxer to capture gold in eight years.
His results were:
•
• 1st spherical – Second Place at the first AIBA yank 2004 Olympic Qualifying Tournament
• 2nd spherical – Defeated Clemente Russo (Italy) 17–9
• Quarterfinals – Defeated Evgeny Makarenko (Russia) 23–16
• Semifinals – Defeated Utkirbek Haydarov (Uzbekistan) 17–15
• Gold palm Match – Defeated Magomed Aripgadjiev (Belarus) 20– 13

and have you seen some of his olympic fights??? same old same old. ward was getting battered in one fight and literally held for half of the fight. more favorable treatment letting him cheat which is how he got by his entire career. the more he cheated the further he got. only reason they allowed him to cheat was because they were trying to create a star. you think utkirbek haydarov had star power written all over him? they did the same for joshua and when he turned pro he took off. they tried it with ward but he didnt take off because he fought the same ugly cheating style and he has no personality. they got a dud.