Will Sergey "The Klutcher" Holdalev do more than a head lock to stop inside fighting

[Mr Objecitivity]

So a 'suspect' foul (and by that, you mean when a person can potentially cause a foul) is NOT a foul. Ok, got it.


Literally about to foul? That's a false premise. You have no way of proving that he was literally about to foul. So he deserves to be criticized for something that is not a foul because of your false premise that it was going to be a foul? Doesn't logically hold up, does it?



So according to your logic from above:

Andre Ward's 'suspect head-butting' is not a foul, but he should be penalized for it. Yup, Mrs. Logic, he should have lost points for NOT fouling. Your premise that he was CLEARLY attempting a headbutt is false unless you can prove it to be true. Can you?

The only logical premise you are left with is that Andre Ward's head had the potential of causing a headbutt, and you believe that means he should be penalized. Why not just penalize him every time he prepared to throw a body punch since they have a potential for sailing low and causing a foul. Do the same for Kovalev's head and punches having the potential to cause a foul. Yep! Great logical reasoning here!

You're falling apart.

Let's see who's being full of shlt here. Why did you duck this? I'm prepared to look more carefully at these instances of clinching by King Clincher. Are you down? Step up, son. Or is it, daughter? Don't back down now!!!!

THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING. STOP DUCKING AND LET'S LOOK AT THESE INSTANCES OF KOVALEV CLINCHING. OR ARE YOU AFRAID OF WHAT YOU WILL (OR WILL NOT) FIND?

So a 'suspect' foul (and by that, you mean when a person can potentially cause a foul) is NOT a foul. Ok, got it.

No, you've just attacked a strawman. I haven't once claimed that a potential foul is a foul. My argument was an 'ATTEMPTED FOUL' can be criticized / penalized. There's a significant difference between the two terms.

If one in the streets attempts a punch to the face of someone and has their punch blocked, that's an attempted face punch which they will be penalized for.

Likewise, if Andre Ward attempts a headbutt and has it blocked, he can justifiably be criticized for an attempted headbutt too.

That's a false premise. You have no way of proving that he was literally about to foul.

The fact that he is moving his head upwards towards Sergey Kovalev's face without throwing any punches is enough evidence for me.

So he deserves to be criticized for something that is not a foul

No, he deserves to be criticized for an ATTEMPTED headbutt to the face and making initial contact with Sergey Kovalev's body with his head without throwing any punches.

Andre Ward's 'suspect head-butting' is not a foul, but he should be penalized for it. Yup, Mrs. Logic, he should have lost points for NOT fouling. Your premise that he was CLEARLY attempting a headbutt is false unless you can prove it to be true. Can you?

All of that is a strawman fallacy which I've addressed above. You're not responding to any argument there that I've made.

The only logical premise you are left with is that Andre Ward's head had the potential of causing a headbutt

Andre Ward's head DID make initial contact with Sergey Kovalev's body. That's an INDISPUTABLE FACT! That alone makes Andre Ward guilty of a foul.

Why not just penalize him every time he prepared to throw a body punch since they have a potential for sailing low and causing a foul. Do the same for Kovalev's head and punches having the potential to cause a foul. Yep! Great logical reasoning here!

All a strawman fallacy which doesn't refute, nor address any argument I made because that response has nothing to do with my arguments.

You're falling apart.

The only things 'falling apart' are the imaginary arguments you're responding to which I didn't even make in the first place.

Why did you duck this?

Why did I 'duck' what?

I'm prepared to look more carefully at these instances of clinching by King Clincher.

Okay. King clincher? I'm assuming you're referring to Andre Ward.

Are you down? Step up, son. Or is it, daughter?

I'm not a human. I'm beyond what you might think I am!

LET'S LOOK AT THESE INSTANCES OF KOVALEV CLINCHING. OR ARE YOU AFRAID OF WHAT YOU WILL (OR WILL NOT) FIND?

Or how about we first finish analyzing the initial gif that I posted. Why should I move onto anything else if we haven't come to an agreement of the initial gif / topic we were discussing about first? Or rather, if you're not willing to objectively analyse that gif?

What was Andre Ward's head doing if not making contact with Sergey Kovalev's body after he came up to Kovalev's chest height from a lower ducked down position?

[travestyny]

No, you've just attacked a strawman. I haven't once claimed that a potential foul is a foul. My argument was an 'ATTEMPTED FOUL' can be criticized / penalized. There's a significant difference between the two terms.

If one in the streets attempts a punch to the face of someone and has their punch blocked, that's an attempted face punch which they will be penalized for.

Likewise, if Andre Ward attempts a headbutt and has it blocked, he can justifiably be criticized for an attempted headbutt too.



The fact that he is moving his head upwards towards Sergey Kovalev's face without throwing any punches is enough evidence for me.



No, he deserves to be criticized for an ATTEMPTED headbutt to the face and making initial contact with Sergey Kovalev's body with his head without throwing any punches.



All of that is a strawman fallacy which I've addressed above. You're not responding to any argument there that I've made.



Andre Ward's head DID make initial contact with Sergey Kovalev's body. That's an INDISPUTABLE FACT! That alone makes Andre Ward guilty of a foul.



All a strawman fallacy which doesn't refute, nor address any argument I made because that response has nothing to do with my arguments.



The only things 'falling apart' are the imaginary arguments you're responding to which I didn't even make in the first place.



Why did I 'duck' what?



Okay. King clincher? I'm assuming you're referring to Andre Ward.



I'm not a human. I'm beyond what you might think I am!



Or how about we first finish analyzing the initial gif that I posted. Why should I move onto anything else if we haven't come to an agreement of the initial gif / topic we were discussing about first? Or rather, if you're not willing to objectively analyse that gif?

What was Andre Ward's head doing if not making contact with Sergey Kovalev's body after he came up to Kovalev's chest height from a lower ducked down position?

Dude, your entire theory is based on the false premise that he is intentionally trying to headbutt. You said yourself it's enough evidence, FOR YOU. That's because you are clearly biased.

We have already established that I don't agree with you that he butted Kovalev's body in that gif. I asked you to point it out in a video and tell the exact time. You declined. Ok. Then let's take it from the top.

I sent you a video of the very first clinch. Now, are you going to answer about what happens there, or are you going to keep ducking hard?

You said yourself one instance doesn't mean anything, right? Then why are you afraid? Let's look at some of this clich action by Kovalev in detail.

Or will you keep ducking? Duck duck duck... third time I asked you to step up!

[TonyGe]

They've done a great job ignoring that kov did exactly what they whined about for months lol

I got an idea. Take a page from Ward's playbook and headbutt him. If he's being called a dirty fighter he may as well act like one. How about an elbow to Ward's nose and a forearm to the throat. What the hell if he's going to play rough just go for it.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Dude, your entire theory is based on the false premise that he is intentionally trying to headbutt. You said yourself it's enough evidence, FOR YOU. That's because you are clearly biased.

We have already established that I don't agree with you that he butted Kovalev's body in that gif. I asked you to point it out in a video and tell the exact time. You declined. Ok. Then let's take it from the top.

I sent you a video of the very first clinch. Now, are you going to answer about what happens there, or are you going to keep ducking hard?

You said yourself one instance doesn't mean anything, right? Then why are you afraid? Let's look at some of this clich action by Kovalev in detail.

Or will you keep ducking? Duck duck duck... third time I asked you to step up!

Dude, your entire theory is based on the false premise that he is intentionally trying to headbutt. You said yourself it's enough evidence, FOR YOU. That's because you are clearly biased.

So Andre Ward:

1) Moving his head upwards from a ducked / low position towards Sergey Kovalev's head.

2) Not attempting to throw any punches.

3) Having his head merely inches / millimeters away from Sergey Kovalev's body after making contact with his head on Sergey Kovavlev's body when he got his head back up to Sergey Kovalev's chest height from a lower position.

Isn't evidence that Ward was attempting a headbutt?

Well if you don't accept that as an 'intentional headbutt', then it's you who is being biased.

That's like someone in the streets throwing a punch on another person's face, then having their punch blocked and then you claiming that particular person didn't attempt an 'intentional face punch' because it didn't land in the face.

The very same thing is happening here. Just because Andre Ward didn't LAND a headbutt to Kovalev's face doesn't mean he didn't attempt it. The evidence supports my conclusion that he INDEED did attempt a headbutt to the face. It was simply blocked by Kovalev.

Furthermore, it doesn't even matter whether Andre Ward landed a headbutt to the face either. He did make initial contact upon Sergey Kovalev's body using his head, so that alone makes Andre Ward guilty of a foul / illegal move in that particular instance.

We have already established that I don't agree with you that he butted Kovalev's body in that gif.

Well what exactly happened in that gif then if not Andre Ward's head making initial contact with Sergey Kovalev's body after coming back up to Sergey Kovalev's chest height from a lower / ducked position?

I asked you to point it out in a video and tell the exact time. You declined

I am telling you the EXACT moment that I am referring to in that gif, which is when Andre Ward comes back up to Sergey Kovalev's chest height from a lower / ducked down position.

I sent you a video of the very first clinch. Now, are you going to answer about what happens there, or are you going to keep ducking hard?

And I posted a gif first. So are you going to fully answer my question or are you going to duck it?

You said yourself one instance doesn't mean anything, right? Then why are you afraid? Let's look at some of this clich action by Kovalev in detail.

No, it isn't a singular instance because Andre Ward REGULARLY headbutts.

Having stated that, it still doesn't mean one has to move on to a different instance when the first instance isn't fully established.

Or will you keep ducking? Duck duck duck... third time I asked you to step up!

That's what you're doing! Why don't you step up and answer my question that I asked?

[travestyny]

So Andre Ward:

1) Moving his head upwards from a ducked / low position towards Sergey Kovalev's head.

2) Not attempting to throw any punches.

3) Having his head merely inches / millimeters away from Sergey Kovalev's body after making contact with his head on Sergey Kovavlev's body when he got his head back up to Sergey Kovalev's chest height from a lower position.

Isn't evidence that Ward was attempting a headbutt?

Well if you don't accept that as an 'intentional headbutt', then it's you who is being biased.

That's like someone in the streets throwing a punch on another person's face, then having their punch blocked and then you claiming that particular person didn't attempt an 'intentional face punch' because it didn't land in the face.

The very same thing is happening here. Just because Andre Ward didn't LAND a headbutt to Kovalev's face doesn't mean he didn't attempt it. The evidence supports my conclusion that he INDEED did attempt a headbutt to the face. It was simply blocked by Kovalev.

Furthermore, it doesn't even matter whether Andre Ward landed a headbutt to the face either. He did make initial contact upon Sergey Kovalev's body using his head, so that alone makes Andre Ward guilty of a foul / illegal move in that particular instance.



Well what exactly happened in that gif then if not Andre Ward's head making initial contact with Sergey Kovalev's body after coming back up to Sergey Kovalev's chest height from a lower / ducked position?



I am telling you the EXACT moment that I am referring to in that gif, which is when Andre Ward comes back up to Sergey Kovalev's chest height from a lower / ducked down position.



And I posted a gif first. So are you going to fully answer my question or are you going to duck it?



No, it isn't a singular instance because Andre Ward REGULARLY headbutts.

Having stated that, it still doesn't mean one has to move on to a different instance when the first instance isn't fully established.



That's what you're doing! Why don't you step up and answer my question that I asked?

LMAOOOOO. STILL DUCKING HUH? You won't answer.


You didn't even post the gif. You just copied and pasted Robbie Barrett's gif, that he used to show Kovalev was initiating the fouling. But sure, let's look at it.

Video is set to play the exact instance...open your damn eyes and see!



Andre Ward ducks a jab, comes up, his head DOESN'T MAKE CONTACT WITH KOVALEV'S BODY...Kovalev pushes his head back down and HIT'S WARD WITH KIDNEY PUNCHES. It's right there in front of your face!!!!

6:04 -- Ward's head is already up. Kovalev moves very, very slightly. Ward's head was NOT going to clash with Kovalev's head. Kovalev still pulls Ward's head back down below his waist, where you claim he doesn't like it because according to you, bending below the waist made him mad enough to want to "retaliate."

THEN KOVALEV IS PROMPTLY WARNED FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN! I GUESS YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE GIF, DID YOU?

Oh, but the ref was cheating, huh? Ref let them both go at it quite a bit, BUT HE WARNS KOVALEV IMMEDIATELY FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN. In fact, he warned Kovalev at least 3 times, maybe 4, for pulling Ward's neck. Never Warns Ward for ducking or for "clearly head butting Kovalev's body."

Now what you got to say? Let me guess. You're going to continue to claim that he body head butted Kovalev, and refuse to look at any other instance of Kovalev clinching, right?

Duck duck duck duck. You don't want to look at the clinching from beginning to the end, huh? Are you gonna step up now? Keep ducking!

[Mr Objecitivity]

lol .................................................. ......

[Mr Objecitivity]

LMAOOOOO. STILL DUCKING HUH? You won't answer.


You didn't even post the gif. You just copied and pasted Robbie Barrett's gif, that he used to show Kovalev was initiating the fouling. But sure, let's look at it.

Video is set to play the exact instance...open your damn eyes and see!



Andre Ward ducks a jab, comes up, his head DOESN'T MAKE CONTACT WITH KOVALEV'S BODY...Kovalev pushes his head back down and HIT'S WARD WITH KIDNEY PUNCHES. It's right there in front of your face!!!!

6:04 -- Ward's head is already up. Kovalev moves very, very slightly. Ward's head was NOT going to clash with Kovalev's head. Kovalev still pulls Ward's head back down below his waist, where you claim he doesn't like it because according to you, bending below the waist made him mad enough to want to "retaliate."

THEN KOVALEV IS PROMPTLY WARNED FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN! I GUESS YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE GIF, DID YOU?

Oh, but the ref was cheating, huh? Ref let them both go at it quite a bit, BUT HE WARNS KOVALEV IMMEDIATELY FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN. In fact, he warned Kovalev at least 3 times, maybe 4, for pulling Ward's neck. Never Warns Ward for ducking or for "clearly head butting Kovalev's body."

Now what you got to say? Let me guess. You're going to continue to claim that he body head butted Kovalev, and refuse to look at any other instance of Kovalev clinching, right?

Duck duck duck duck. You don't want to look at the clinching from beginning to the end, huh? Are you gonna step up now? Keep ducking!

LMAOOOOO. STILL DUCKING HUH? You won't answer.


You didn't even post the gif. You just copied and pasted Robbie Barrett's gif, that he used to show Kovalev was initiating the fouling. But sure, let's look at it.

Video is set to play the exact instance...open your damn eyes and see!



Andre Ward ducks a jab, comes up, his head DOESN'T MAKE CONTACT WITH KOVALEV'S BODY...Kovalev pushes his head back down and HIT'S WARD WITH KIDNEY PUNCHES. It's right there in front of your face!!!!

6:04 -- Ward's head is already up. Kovalev moves very, very slightly. Ward's head was NOT going to clash with Kovalev's head. Kovalev still pulls Ward's head back down below his waist, where you claim he doesn't like it because according to you, bending below the waist made him mad enough to want to "retaliate."

THEN KOVALEV IS PROMPTLY WARNED FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN! I GUESS YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE GIF, DID YOU?

Oh, but the ref was cheating, huh? Ref let them both go at it quite a bit, BUT HE WARNS KOVALEV IMMEDIATELY FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN. In fact, he warned Kovalev at least 3 times, maybe 4, for pulling Ward's neck. Never Warns Ward for ducking or for "clearly head butting Kovalev's body."

Now what you got to say? Let me guess. You're going to continue to claim that he body head butted Kovalev, and refuse to look at any other instance of Kovalev clinching, right?

Duck duck duck duck. You don't want to look at the clinching from beginning to the end, huh? Are you gonna step up now? Keep ducking!

LMAOOOOO. STILL DUCKING HUH? You won't answer.

Well you still haven't answered my question, so until you do, i'm not going to answer your question. We can't just randomly move from one topic to another. we must first fully complete one topic before we move to another.

Andre Ward ducks a jab,

Andre Ward ducks below the waist = illegal move / foul = Andre Ward initially committed a foul / illegal move before Sergey kovalev committed any illegal / foul moves of his own

THEN KOVALEV IS PROMPTLY WARNED FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN! I GUESS YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE GIF, DID YOU?

WHILST ANDRE WARD WASN'T WARNED FOR DUCKING BELOW THE WAIST AND THEN COMING IN WITH HIS HEAD, WHICH ARE THINGS HE SHOULD'VE BEEN WARNED FOR JUST LIKE HOW KOVALEV WAS WARNED.

The point isn't WHO the referee warned / penalized but WHO should've been warned according to the ACTUAL rules of boxing.

Oh, but the ref was cheating,

Evidently, he wasn't applying the same standards / rules for both Sergey Kovalev and Andre Ward. That's a FACT!

BUT HE WARNS KOVALEV IMMEDIATELY FOR PULLING WARD'S HEAD DOWN.

BUT HE DOESN'T WARN WARD IMMEDIATELY FOR COMMITTING HIS OWN ILLEGAL MOVES / FOULS.

Never Warns Ward for ducking or for "clearly head butting Kovalev's body."

Just because the referee didn't warn Ward doesn't mean Ward wasn't committing fouls / illegal moves.

There's something called 'poor refereeing', which does exist!

Now what you got to say?

What have I got to say about what?

Let me guess. You're going to continue to claim that he body head butted Kovalev,

Yes because that's exactly what happened!

and refuse to look at any other instance of Kovalev clinching, right?

I have already looked at it, I am just refusing to discuss it with you FOR NOW because we are still yet to come to an agreement regarding the first point that we were discussing about

Duck duck duck duck. You don't want to look at the clinching from beginning to the end, huh? Are you gonna step up now? Keep ducking!

I have already looked at it but I am refusing to discuss it with you FOR NOW because we haven't yet come to an agreement regarding the the initial topic / gif that we were discussing about.

There is no logical reason for moving to another point if the first point is still unresolved

[travestyny]

Well you still haven't answered my question, so until you do, i'm not going to answer your question. We can't just randomly move from one topic to another. we must first fully complete one topic before we move to another.




Andre Ward ducks below the waist = illegal move / foul = Andre Ward initially committed a foul / illegal move before Sergey kovalev committed any illegal / foul moves of his own







WHILST ANDRE WARD WASN'T WARNED FOR DUCKING BELOW THE WAIST AND THEN COMING IN WITH HIS HEAD, WHICH ARE THINGS HE SHOULD'VE BEEN WARNED FOR JUST LIKE HOW KOVALEV WAS WARNED.

The point isn't WHO the referee warned / penalized but WHO should've been warned according to the ACTUAL rules of boxing.





Evidently, he wasn't applying the same standards / rules for both Sergey Kovalev and Andre Ward. That's a FACT!



BUT HE DOESN'T WARN WARD IMMEDIATELY FOR COMMITTING HIS OWN ILLEGAL MOVES / FOULS.



Just because the referee didn't warn Ward doesn't mean Ward wasn't committing fouls / illegal moves.

There's something called 'poor refereeing', which does exist!





What have I got to say about what?



Yes because that's exactly what happened!





I have already looked at it, I am just refusing to discuss it with you FOR NOW because we are still yet to come to an agreement regarding the first point that we were discussing about



I have already looked at it but I am refusing to discuss it with you FOR NOW because we haven't yet come to an agreement regarding the the initial topic / gif that we were discussing about.

There is no logical reason for moving to another point if the first point is still unresolved

How the hell did I not answer your question? There was no head contact with his body.

I like how suddenly you have no mention of a "body headbutt" Now it's all about Ward ducking below the waist. Is that a foul perpetrated against Kovalev?

What did Kovalev say when he was warned by the ref? Did he say, "Well he's ducking below the waist." Did he say, "Well, he's butting my body." Nope.

You're full of shlt and the way you are responding shows you are full of shlt. There was no body head-butt period. Kovalev wasn't grabbing because Ward ducked below the waist. Furthermore, you yourself kept talking about how one instance of ducking below the waist doesn't mean anything, yet you refuse to move past this one instance of it.


Thank you for proving you're just a butthurt fan making excuses.

[therealpugilist]

I got an idea. Take a page from Ward's playbook and headbutt him. If he's being called a dirty fighter he may as well act like one. How about an elbow to Ward's nose and a forearm to the throat. What the hell if he's going to play rough just go for it.

where we the headbutts in his fight with kovalev?


Kovalev administered more front headlocks than a high school wrestling match

proof is in the pudding...its on tape

[TonyGe]

where we the headbutts in his fight with kovalev?


Kovalev administered more front headlocks than a high school wrestling match

proof is in the pudding...its on tape

There weren't any because Kovalev stuffed Ward when he came in with his head down.