Best Welterweight Ever?

[blockhead]

yup, ray robinson was undefeated at welter and then went on to win the middle weight title a rediculous amount of times even as an old guy.

[ROSEWOOD]

my buddy got me a six dvd set of robinson fights for christmas last year. the guy was ****ing amazing. he had speed and movement like ali, but combined with one punch ko power.
on the dvd's there are two fights agains gene fulmer and in one of them ray drops a huge bomb right hand that sends genes mouthpeice into the seats and knocks him unconcious immediately, it is one of the most vicious ko's i have ever seen

say playa whats the name of the dvd??

[Soldier01]

Who gives a **** about Trinidad, hes not the #1 Welterweight ever. I'd say top 5 or something.

THIS COMING FROM IWATCH....I"M SHOCKED!!!

But, yeah Trinidad is up there but not the best.

[wmute]

a few bout on espn classics..thats it not too many hell not even 1/4 of his fights...most on this thread can say the same thing...

yes

I dont understand how you can pick tito ove robinson, if you have seen robinson fight

[blockhead]

say playa whats the name of the dvd??

it doesnt have a name, it is a bootleg collection that my friend found for me on ebay. i wish i could find another copy.
you should really try to find some of the other robinson fights that are out there like the fulmer fights and the randy turpin fights. robinson loses to turpin but turpin has the weirdest style i have ever seen

[Left2body]

If i`m not mistaken almost all of Robinsons losses(at least a dozen) were after his 40th birthday(he fought till he was 44) He was fighting guys 20 years younger than him on short notice because he blew all his money. And, he only ever lost once as a welterweight. That was to Lamotta, who he then beat the next 5 times they fought.

Robinson never lost at WW he didn't lose a fight till he went up to fighting middleweights......but even then he himself was weigthing in below or at WW...against guys 10-13 pounds heavier. My brother also has DVD's on Robinson, Benitez, Archie Moore and some other great old timers. One thing that is apparent in watching Robinson was that he was relentless if he hurt you. I mean the second you got up he was literally on top of you, but even then he was smart and used all types of angles.

[K-DOGG]

great post:

power and aggression delude a lot of people into making a fighter better than he is.

tito and oscar both ****** in their fight

I dont know if basilio could do tito, the fact that he dealt with robinson left hook is in his favor as well as his being lineal 160 champ, but I think he was too much of forward fighter (even with his skills, i dont think he had the right style to fight tito)

Ross and Armstrong are smaller than tito, that's my big concern. I know it is hard to pick anyone against armstrong, but again his style is not a great style to fight tito.

You make a good point; but I feel Armstrong would have smothered Tito's power. Still, coming in on Tito is dangerous.

My reasoning with Basilio is exactly as you stated. Any man who can take the kind of licks Robinson was putting on him for 15 rounds (rematch) has a better than average chin.

[Rane-Ex54]

K-Dogg, You have some good views, but Felix never dodged a fight and he was public about wanting a Hopkins re-match. Tito was always known as taking on the best fighters, I think it never happened because of shady boxing politics.

[cple]

I'm a huge Tito fan, but he's not in the top 10. MAYBE top 15. I'd probably say De La Hoya is even further down the list.

[K-DOGG]

K-Dogg, You have some good views, but Felix never dodged a fight and he was public about wanting a Hopkins re-match. Tito was always known as taking on the best fighters, I think it never happened because of shady boxing politics.

That I can agree with, though I would say his father might have had something to do with it. Tito was a true warrior, I have never said otherwise; I was merely making the point that if anyone had motivation for those fights not happening, it was Tito, not the men who dominated him.

No, I don't think Tito was afraid of anyone; but I can see his father protecting him....or, it might be as you say.