Best Welterweight Ever?

[IwatchBoxing]

Thats all speculation, because Trinidad never had a rematch, no one, not even Oscar or Hopkins wanted to face Trinidad a 2nd time, only Winky. If Trinidad had a defeat when he was in his prime, to be great he would of had to rebounded from the loss, but his first loss, three weights up, against an all-timer, after ten years of dominnating, he just left.

[Scottie2Hottie]

lol, anyone who took my first post in this thread seriously, get your head examined.

i watched the st valentine's day massacre fight with SRR and was blown away by how fast and strong he was.

[K-DOGG]

Floyd Mayweather, at this stage in his career, doesn't even belong in this conversation.

[K-DOGG]

Thats all speculation, because Trinidad never had a rematch, no one, not even Oscar or Hopkins wanted to face Trinidad a 2nd time, only Winky. If Trinidad had a defeat when he was in his prime, to be great he would of had to rebounded from the loss, but his first loss, three weights up, against an all-timer, after ten years of dominnating, he just left.

To my knowledge, it was Tito who didn't want the rematches. Hopkins was all about doe-rey-me money, so he would have been happy to face Tito again. That's what the Wright fight was all about. If Tito had won that one, we would have seen Hopkins-Trinidad II.

Also, Oscar most assuredly wanted Tito again; but Felix moved up in weight.

Neither Hopkins nor De La Hoya were scared to fight Tito again. That's pure fiction.

[wmute]

See your just taking shots at what Tito's weakness was. Everyone of those fighters you mentioned have there individual weakness's also. Tito was always attacking, so oviouslly the jab was the best offense for someone fighting him. You still can't deny his power, determination, and stamina. To beat Tito, you have to knwo how to move and be able to take a beating for round after round, which no one could do until he moved up to fight in middleweight vs Hopkins...

1. no one except oscar

2. take the fighters in my list (the first part) and tell me which of their weaknesses would tito exploit, please. I am really curious... for example what kink in the armor of robinson would tito, as the great tactician he always was, spot and be able to exploit, with his great ability to adjust to his opponents. How would his stamina help him against fighters who fought 15 rounds, more often than he did 12.

how would he hit Napoles eonugh to win a round?

how would he survive hearns right hands? with his defense?

as much as I hate leonard, how on earth would tito be able to beat that crafty, fast, SMART s.o.b. (who also had an iron chin)?

and so on...

look someone said tito is #1 welter all time, that's very simply bull****, he surely has a spot in the second half of the top 10. (after the 30s, I am not informed enough about fighters fomr before the 15 rounds fights era).

No one is taking away his strong points or his wins (except one).

[IwatchBoxing]

To my knowledge, it was Tito who didn't want the rematches. Hopkins was all about doe-rey-me money, so he would have been happy to face Tito again. That's what the Wright fight was all about. If Tito had won that one, we would have seen Hopkins-Trinidad II.

Also, Oscar most assuredly wanted Tito again; but Felix moved up in weight.

Neither Hopkins nor De La Hoya were scared to fight Tito again. That's pure fiction.

Thats all bullcrap, to your knownledge, you forgot that Trinidad faced everyone, and was like the only guy to fight everyone, and anywhere. DLH fought everyone after Trinidad did, and Hopkins just waited at Middleweight for years, until Tito moved up, and set up a tournament, in which he came out 2nd! against four champions.

[wmute]

ill take that...tito is my pick....

did you ever see footage of robinson?

[Rane-Ex54]

I remember De la Hoya saying at the end of the fight, next time if they fought he would brawl it out. If that were the case, Tito would have brutually beat his ass.

[Yogi]

but people are saying SRR is without seeing ONE OF HIS FIGHTS!

Contary to what you have stated twice so far in this thread, there IS in fact footage of Robinson at welterweight (at least two fights...vs. Angott & Fusari) and I've personally seen footage of one of them.

[Left2body]

left2body, you misread my post:

my claim is the first part of the list would mop the floor with tito.

the ppl in the second part are too small to do so, but I would still pick them to win decisions if they fought against tito at 147

and I strongly disagree with tito being a good counter puncher against good oppositions (for an example good usage of left hook in counterpunchung a southpaw see judah-maywetaher), in fact when he beat the best fighters in his resume counterpunching was not a big part of it

competition: If we fdconsdier 147 I think tito's and oscar's comp are pretty even (tito wrecked some youngsters before oscar, but faced a completely washed up pea and never fought quartey, which happened to be the two most controversial wins for oscar)

to me dlh-tito is way more controversial than pea-dlh (and pea is also one of MY all time fav way way above oscar for which I have moderate liking, but I wasnt nearly as disappointed with the decision in the pea fight as is was in the tito fight), quartey-dlh comes closer, but it still isnt on the level

Point taken. I also do believe Tito was a good counter puncher, look at the Reid, Oba Carr and Camacho fights. But as you pointed out Zab is an excellent counter puncher better than Tito in that regard. Zab's power and KO's come from his counters, especially that killer counter left uppercut.

I actually think Tito has an excellent shot versus many on your list if they fought at 147lbs. Tito was physically stronger and had tons of power at that weight. What more could Tito have done at Welterweight before moving up? He fought the top guys at the time many of them prime.

Like I said earlier he might not be Greatest of all time but he is greatest WW of his generation.