was Roberto Duran really that great?

[Azteca]

Bolded are my answers.

Azteca....What is your point..In fact you jumped in a debate and you not even debating the issue.


I will repeat it so clear and simple this time so that you can completley undertand what the issue is.

However reasons why Duran is not ranked above Ali, Armstrong, Grebb, and ranked very close to Leonard is the fact that those 70 victories 23+ are vs fighters who had records similar to 10-11, 1-4 , 0-3...etc... 23 of them AFTER he becam champion.

Again, why does it matter? He held the title for 6 years & made 12 defenses.....almost all by KO. What else could he have done? And more importantly, who could he of fought????

That coupled with the other 2 facts that his best victories during his reign of torture at lightwieight were buchanon, marcil, Dejesuse who he was 2-1 against, and Kyboashi.

Tell me a lightweight that was more challenged, pinky. I named his good opponents in my post above.

This list is not exactly Hall of fame material when compared to Leonard beating Duran, Hearns, Benetix, Hagler. Finall point is yes Duran was at his most effectiv weight at 135, but since we all judge Maywether, Mosley's Dlh Leonard's based on how they fare north of their original weight class,,and we judge them all inclusive meaning wins and losses, up to around the age of about 34-35 generally. When you look at the entiretly Duran move north was not as successful as others.

No it is not hall of fame material because of his losses. But him absorbing shots at 38 from a prime Iran Barkley....that was special.

It's tough to even see Chavez doing a number on this guy. Or any lightweight for that matter.

Surely he gives any fighter from 135-160 a run for there money???? On an all-time basis, best vs. best...I really dont see him losing many fights.


Oh and no we dont judge a fighter on how high they jumped. Maybe in the modern era.

ALltime=
who did you beat?
did you face alot of prospects, and beat up those prospects or did you feast on over the hill guys??
did you fight in a guys hometown, and win?
how did you beat your opponents?
....

[Azteca]

Azteca....DURAN IS LEGENDARY... ok... What is is that your not getting. Mybe my previous post will clarify my position to you. I think top 10 ever it pretty amazying..Dont you.

I guess you want me to rank him top 3...Sorry but because of what I have listed in the previous post he doesnt.

Just like Ray leonard based on quality of oppositon he is top 5..but because of longitivit he drops down some notches. Longivitity for Duran is a plus., but those losses and the fact he had a lot of padding with 1-4 fighters after he was a champion drops him to....IMO.

What if Mayweather fought a fighter after the Hatton fight who had a recordof 2-5, what would you say. And he would be fighing this fighter at welter wieght...where duran fought them at his most effective weight.

For the 20th time, it's a different era. Why in the hell would I bother comparing Mayweather/Duran when Mayweather's career isn't even over.

And he is in the era of popcorn and PPV.

Duran wasn't this flash, hype bull****.

He was a fighter of substance.

[wpink1]

Azteca.. My name is Wpink. I call you by the your name you want, do the same...as for your post.... I am digesting it now. I will respond to it. then I have to hit the gym...Pretty hyped up....My college team I played football for is now #2 in the country....Kansas Jayhawks..so this going to be a great week. Let me digest your previeous email respond then we can call it a day....Or I will wait for your final response too, how does that sound to you?

[Azteca]

Sure wpink.

[wpink1]

Another good damm post..I am very impressed....However I think we are saying the same thing. Which leaves to wonder why are we even debating.

Duran was substance. Agreed
Duran was great all time...agreed
Duran would give most fighters not all ...He simply is not made to fight Tommy Hearns...Just a bad match up for him. Hearns at 154 beats all of them, IMO..as he would be able to handle rays punches better at that weight.

You keep bringing up Chavez..I am no chavez fan.. I think he had a lot of padding too. Did you think he was given a gift to get a draw with Whitacker

It was special him beting Barkley, and Moor...Always said that.

I think we agree more than you thing. It may have appeared when you first got on that I am againt duran because quit possibley you may have entered in the middle of a debate.but Duran is a one my favorites, and clealry one of if not the best lightweight of all time. Styles beat Duran, not fighters..STyles...Ray had the style when he employd it to beat Duran, when he elected to go toee to toe...it was close, only becaue duran moved up toe fight him, had that fight been at lightweith...Ray may not have survived the first 4 rounds... That being said..Ray boxing at welteweight beats duran 9 times out of 10 IMO. Styles!!

My final point azteca is and has always been in this debate that I want everyone to judge duran by the same set of criteria that they judge everyone else by, and stop giving him excuses for every ass kicking he got.


I am sure we will meet up again.

[Azteca]

i apologize, i did enter part way through. i saw you giving duran ****, and had to call you out for it.

i'm sorry man...It's just the way I think. When I watch Duran fight...I am amazed.

When I watch Floyd fight...i am neither entertained or amazed.

[SkillspayBills]

it pretty much is, man. pinky is going to verify my stat about it being unprecedented for a lightweight to dethrone a welter for 50 years.

he is legendary, wether you guys like it or not.

This is what I mean OVERRATING the older fighters. Duran legendary? HELL YES. Duran an all time great? HELL YES. Can someone be as good as him and accomplish great things like he has? HELL YES!!! Didn't shane Go from lightweight to Welter to beat Oscar, I know he had a tune up first but still.

[Azteca]

verify that mosley stat for me skils.

[wpink1]

No problem,,,I am like that with Leonard, as anyone can tell on any board. I am a realist though. I think Duran can move up more successfully and have great sustained success than Ray could, simply because Durans style, defense etc...Ray at Welterweight is about perfect of a match as you can have. Duran has the ability to overwhelm lightweigghts, outbrawl most welterweights...and out thnk and out box most middleweights. He simply is that good. However there are those great 4 fighters that simply were too big naturally for Duran to impose his will on unless the fought ******ly like Leonard did.

My all time rankings are this.

Robinson
Ali
armostrong
Grebb -- based off of what i have read.
Pepp
Louis
Duran
Leonard


My all tiem off of talent alone

Robinson
Ali,
Roy Jones,
Leonard,
Duran
Mayweather
Pepp
Armstrong..

This is just my opinion. I have not seen enough footage of zale, graziano, etc..

[Azteca]

i'm sorry but how can you say leonard fought duran ******ly?? duran was a master technician pink. he forced leonard to fight the way he did.