was Roberto Duran really that great?

[Azteca]

Azteca...you must have been beaten up on your way to school a lot, and got a new computer for christmas so your typeing tough in chatrooms..save the weak stuff for face to facre confrontaations...Anyone can type tough in a chat room. What we are on here doing is debating issues...what your on here doing is sounding like a *****...lets get back to the issues..OK..I will respect you..you respect me..and debate the issues...

such as your false claim that Duran is in Bert Sugars top five...

Consider the following:
1. Duran was the greatest lightweight champion of all time. Period.
2. A lightweight champion dethroning a welterweight champion was unprecedented for 50 years. Leonard was near his prime as well when Duran defeated him and don't be fooled --the first fight mattered most.
3. A lightweight champion has never, ever dethroned a MIDDLEWEIGHT champion and Duran did just that --10 years after his prime and against a man (Iran Barkley) who was much larger and in his prime.

[wpink1]

Good Post Azteca.. I am proud of you some facts..and your right abouth them too. I dont know about the 50 years..I need to check but your right.

Now post something that has not been said and agreed upon by every one on here. Your trying to steal Wiley's thunder. NO one disagrees with Duran's greatness Azteca..Just I am a few others on here are not buying that Duran is as great as you and others try to paint him to be.

[Azteca]

I dont remember any one saying Duran was not an all time great, or that Mayweather right now deserves to be ranked with Duran. However, we give you facts, and you can not return the favor.

One thing that you and other do is leave out the facts that are not favorable about duran. Duran first 20 or so fights were against fighters with something like 0-0 records Fact! This was his equavalence to an amateur career as these fighters were not experience professionals. Fact! Did Duran win a belt at 118? Now he was young and still growing, fighting fights learning his trade making money...while others wher doing the same thing, fighting fights under the umbrella of Amateur...So to say Professional career, I will concur that Duran professional career started at 118, however the reality if Mayweather's Dlh all did what Duran did only their early years were for free......

I gave you a person who as a professional accomplished the same feat, Roy Jones Jr...He started at 160...then fought to the heavyweight title vs a fighter who weight well over 200? In fact he weight 226 for the fight.

look at what you are saying here, pinky. Why the heck would that even matter?

Do you realize he fought legends like hearns, Benitez, Hagler, Leonard. Quite high of company...

[Azteca]

Good Post Azteca.. I am proud of you some facts..and your right abouth them too. I dont know about the 50 years..I need to check but your right.

Now post something that has not been said and agreed upon by every one on here. Your trying to steal Wiley's thunder. NO one disagrees with Duran's greatness Azteca..Just I am a few others on here are not buying that Duran is as great as you and others try to paint him to be.

Pinky.

You are claiming two things:
1) he fought alot of chumps during his career
2) and his losses

......last time I checked every single fighter not named marciano has lost. And when you consider who duran beat, how he beat them, and the weight he beat them at...well that is stuff only a legend could accomplish.

and as for #1 - who the hell cares... chavez fought cab drivers for 75 fights...but he proved he had the right stuff. he has an incredible list of b level fighters on his resume.

[wpink1]

Ohh the first fight did not matter the most, it matter the same, as both were still in their primes...5-6 months apart...For the same title. Just like Ali frazier 3rd fight historically measuring up to the 1st fight.

What about the first fight was more significant.....Maybe to you and Duran fans it is the fight you want to matter the most since Duran won., and it is no surprise that a duran fan would utter something like that.

[Azteca]

Ohh the first fight did not matter the most, it matter the same, as both were still in their primes...5-6 months apart...For the same title. Just like Ali frazier 3rd fight historically measuring up to the 1st fight.

What about the first fight was more significant.....Maybe to you and Duran fans it is the fight you want to matter the most since Duran won., and it is no surprise that a duran fan would utter something like that.

look pink....i can point to his resume at lightweight and he will still be mentioned as an atg. throw out his losses at every other weight and he would still be the top lightweight of all time.

buchanan
lampkin
viruet
suzuki
dejesus

who's ****in' with that, pinky?? who??

and dont give me any of that b leonard/gans nonsense. near impossible to break down those fighter's records. top lightweight of all time..in a divison that possibly has teh greatest depth of all time.

[SkillspayBills]

Good Post Azteca.. I am proud of you some facts..and your right abouth them too. I dont know about the 50 years..I need to check but your right.

Now post something that has not been said and agreed upon by every one on here. Your trying to steal Wiley's thunder. NO one disagrees with Duran's greatness Azteca..Just I am a few others on here are not buying that Duran is as great as you and others try to paint him to be.

People treat Duran's greatness as unattainable, when that isn't the case. They tend to do this to all the fighters of yesteryear.

[Azteca]

People treat Duran's greatness as unattainable, when that isn't the case. They tend to do this to all the fighters of yesteryear.

it pretty much is, man. pinky is going to verify my stat about it being unprecedented for a lightweight to dethrone a welter for 50 years.

he is legendary, wether you guys like it or not.

[wpink1]

Azteca....What is your point..In fact you jumped in a debate and you not even debating the issue.


I will repeat it so clear and simple this time so that you can completley undertand what the issue is.

Duran had a 70-1 record at lightweight very very very great record. He moved up and is the only man to beat a prime Sugar Ray leonard. He also moved up and beat Moore, and Barkely for addditonal titles. This is an amazing and not often repeated feat. One that has Duran ranked in my top 10 all time. However reasons why Duran is not ranked above Ali, Armstrong, Grebb, and ranked very close to Leonard is the fact that those 70 victories 23+ are vs fighters who had records similar to 10-11, 1-4 , 0-3...etc... 23 of them AFTER he becam champion.

That coupled with the other 2 facts that his best victories during his reign of torture at lightwieight were buchanon, marcil, Dejesuse who he was 2-1 against, and Kyboashi. This list is not exactly Hall of fame material when compared to Leonard beating Duran, Hearns, Benetix, Hagler. Finall point is yes Duran was at his most effectiv weight at 135, but since we all judge Maywether, Mosley's Dlh Leonard's based on how they fare north of their original weight class,,and we judge them all inclusive meaning wins and losses, up to around the age of about 34-35 generally. When you look at the entiretly Duran move north was not as successful as others.

That is my point. I still rank Duran high, but I bring in all the facts....

[wpink1]

Azteca....DURAN IS LEGENDARY... ok... What is is that your not getting. Mybe my previous post will clarify my position to you. I think top 10 ever it pretty amazying..Dont you.

I guess you want me to rank him top 3...Sorry but because of what I have listed in the previous post he doesnt.

Just like Ray leonard based on quality of oppositon he is top 5..but because of longitivit he drops down some notches. Longivitity for Duran is a plus., but those losses and the fact he had a lot of padding with 1-4 fighters after he was a champion drops him to....IMO.

What if Mayweather fought a fighter after the Hatton fight who had a recordof 2-5, what would you say. And he would be fighing this fighter at welter wieght...where duran fought them at his most effective weight.