Winky's legacy?

[Easy-E]

Hah, my ****ing point exactly..... which I stated a page ago. This is basically an ideaological debate since neither person will differ in how they choose to score. You say Solimon had ring generalship, I say it was Winky who was the true general since Solimon's aggression wasn't effective 75% of the time.

It's the same reason why Taylor Vs Hopkins I&II can be scored differently and I don't consider it crazy.

Thats why effective agression is a scoring category as well...

however, i usually would reserve points in the ring generalship category for guys like Marvin Hagler, who control the pace of the fight and keep up or slow down the tempo. Soliman was just kind of...i cant really explain what he was doing, but it shouldnt have been nearly as effective as it was.

[Easy-E]

I have to admit though, he was the busier fighter the whole fight. some judges look for that

Well then thats a serious problem. Who gives a **** how many punches you throw, its how many you land.

AGAIN
Effective Agressiveness
Clean Punching
Ring Generalship
Defense

None of those categories involve throwing tons of punches that dont land, you dont, or at least shouldnt, get points for that.

[JDizzle79]

Well then thats a serious problem. Who gives a **** how many punches you throw, its how many you land.

AGAIN
Effective Agressiveness
Clean Punching
Ring Generalship
Defense

None of those categories involve throwing tons of punches that dont land, you dont, or at least shouldnt, get points for that.

it still happens on a regular basis though...at least one jus=dge out of the three

[ferocity]

since some of you feel winky is hof and may think all-time great, then where does this place julio cesar vasquez, harry simon, and fernando vargas all who beat winky?

and where does soliman rate, since his fight with winky, regardless of who you think won was a very close fight?

[beezy 14]

MachoTime I agree that Tito is more exciting and has the higher KO percentage, but the difference is in Winky's loss to Vazquez he got beat got up from several knockdowns and showed tremendous heart to continue. Several members here said that they gained a lot of respect for Winky even in defeat, the difference is that he came back and didn't retire. He basicly hasn't loss since and has beaten Tito in dominant fashion and Shane Mosley 2 and is facing a good opponent in Taylor. He handled losses better then Tito and beat Tito in dominant fashion and looked better against Vargas a common opponent. Tito arguably loss his biggest fights and not close (hopkins,winky,oscar robbery)so he's more exciting I'll give you that but won't have the better legacy with true boxing experts. Hagler isn't as publicized as Leonard, Duran, Hearns but people who payed attention know whats up!

[beezy 14]

Ferocity, did you see the Harry Simon fight? It was in his home town and they changed the decision after the fight had been scored and he know he didn't beat Winky as does Vargas.If you watch those fights you'll change your position on those fights, he loss the vazquez fight tho. Even if they would have beat him that still doesn't focus on the fact that Vargas loses the majority of his big fights , look what Winky did to Vargas and 2 of Vargas 3 biggest losses in Mosley and Tito. Vargas other big loss is to Oscar who knows he's prob to small to beat Winky, definitely not KO him. So that's why he'll have the better legacy then Vargas(not fan base) and Harry Simon won't get the same adjulation because people recognize that robbery and he hasn't done as much as Winky since as well. So you base Hall of Fame on body of works and Winky's is better.

[ferocity]

Ferocity, did you see the Harry Simon fight? It was in his home town and they changed the decision after the fight had been scored and he know he didn't beat Winky as does Vargas.If you watch those fights you'll change your position on those fights, he loss the vazquez fight tho. Even if they would have beat him that still doesn't focus on the fact that Vargas loses the majority of his big fights , look what Winky did to Vargas and 2 of Vargas 3 biggest losses in Mosley and Tito. Vargas other big loss is to Oscar who knows he's prob to small to beat Winky, definitely not KO him. So that's why he'll have the better legacy then Vargas(not fan base) and Harry Simon won't get the same adjulation because people recognize that robbery and he hasn't done as much as Winky since as well. So you base Hall of Fame on body of works and Winky's is better.

you know....i once downloaded the simon fight and tried watching his fight against simon, BUT! i couldn't, that fight ****** ass, i tried a few times watching the fight again but i just couldn't do it, cause the fight was ****en borrig in winky fashion at least from the start

and LOL, how you want to discredit a young vargas and hype up winky, and for you to think winky can beat a prime dealhoya you must be smoking the good stuff

winky looked like **** against soliman but you don't even mention the soliman fight or the closeness of the fight

no way does winky have a better legacy then trinidad, winky didn't beat a prime trinidad so you are fooling yourself if that fight holds much weight

put it like this if winky is as good as you think he is, then he will beat taylor, but he won't, winky is over-rated and again as i've said, winky ducked KASSIM OUMA when ouma was his number 1 challenger and MANDATORY!

[beezy 14]

So ferocity your talking and making a comment about fights(Harry Simon) that you haven't even seen, if you watched it you would know . And I didn't discredit Vargas I just stated that he lost the majority of his biggest fight's and I like Vargas that's just the facts. And I realize that Tito is 1 of the most exciting fighters in a while, but don't mistake that with winning the majority of your major fights. Bottom line Winky, Oscar, and Bernard exposed Tito for being somewhat 1 dimensional. And they all have 1 thing in common they can BOX something Tito didn't figure out,and did you see the way Winky beat Tito? virtually every rd he won. But yet his legacy is better then Winky's? No he'll be remembered for being more exciting then Winky maybe a bigger punch but not better. And if Winky were to lose to Taylor that's not a disgrace,Taylor just beat the MW king twice in Bernard and has the weight and size advantage over Winky. Winky just likes the biggest fight's and if that fight requires him to move up in weight then he does it. He doesn't stay at that weight like your other boy Margorito so he can fight smaller people and have 15-20 pds on fight nite. And he has done more then Margorito so if he can so can Margorito, and that's why Winky will have a legacy. Other ppl on this thread understand that why don't you?

[beezy 14]

O and ferocity about the DeLaHoya thing now I think Winky would beat Oscar, before idunno just because Winky fought at 154 like his whole career and Oscar would be so much smaller if we're talking in his prime. Don't forget about Winky's jab that is dangerous,it would be like the sturm fight. Oscar could win but it would be difficult, that's not a negative to Oscar he's just much smaller and Winky can box also.

[ferocity]

So ferocity your talking and making a comment about fights(Harry Simon) that you haven't even seen, if you watched it you would know . And I didn't discredit Vargas I just stated that he lost the majority of his biggest fight's and I like Vargas that's just the facts. And I realize that Tito is 1 of the most exciting fighters in a while, but don't mistake that with winning the majority of your major fights. Bottom line Winky, Oscar, and Bernard exposed Tito for being somewhat 1 dimensional. And they all have 1 thing in common they can BOX something Tito didn't figure out,and did you see the way Winky beat Tito? virtually every rd he won. But yet his legacy is better then Winky's? No he'll be remembered for being more exciting then Winky maybe a bigger punch but not better. And if Winky were to lose to Taylor that's not a disgrace,Taylor just beat the MW king twice in Bernard and has the weight and size advantage over Winky. Winky just likes the biggest fight's and if that fight requires him to move up in weight then he does it. He doesn't stay at that weight like your other boy Margorito so he can fight smaller people and have 15-20 pds on fight nite. And he has done more then Margorito so if he can so can Margorito, and that's why Winky will have a legacy. Other ppl on this thread understand that why don't you?

winky had been at jr. middlweight almost his whole career about 10 years and in those ten years he's had three title shots, and now, how can you compare margarito to him, when "no one" wants to give him a chance to prove himself?

why didn't your boy! move up in weight YEARS AGO if he thinks people were ducking him? I'll tell you why, cause he keep waiting for the right time to move up in weight, he thinks he can beat taylor where in reality all he wants is a pay check

you think Trinidad is going to be judged by one fight!?trinidad was past his prime. Damn, rookie, know ****, and you think boxing historians arn't going to look at winkys career when they judge him? you a damn, rookie! winkys resume can't compare to Trinidads, plain and simple, winkys career can't be matched with Trinidads cause their is no competion.

delahoya exposed trinidad, so don't make it out as if hopkins and winky did so first, DON'T GIVE credit where it is not due, it is "not" due to hopkins nor winky, only to delahoya

i know and remember a lot of what writers were saying about the simon v. winky fight and it was no robbery

winky beats an old shadow of trinidad and all of a sudden winky is in the same league as a pernal whitiker and better resume then trinidad, LOL, mosley was offered to fight trinidad, guess what? MOSLEY TURNED DOWN THE FIGHT

and you are already making excuses for winky, for when he gets beat by taylor, LOL

winky couldn't even handle SOLIMAN, what a f'en joke, but credit to soliman he rose to the occasion and in another time he would have gone home with the victory. winky struggleD with a fighter like soliman but yet his legacy is better then trinidad, LOL

im sure you loved! winkys performance against robert frazier a fighter David Reid beat years ago!