Hagler vs James Toney MW WAR

[John Locke]

Toney doesn't have the advantage outside at all. There's 0 chance that Toney could outbox Hagler from the outside. It's not possible. He's way too flat footed and simply not good from range.

Hagler would easily outwork him, easily outbox him and if he really wanted to he could beat him up and bully him on the inside aswell but he wouldn't even need to do that because that's the only area where Toney is even comparable.

He'd happily stay on the outside and land the jab and left at will.

There is absolutely no way Toney is more skilled than Marvin Hagler. He never, ever, EVER showed that in the ring. He was outskilled numerous times by far worse fighters than Hagler. Any time Toney fought someone that was actually good, he struggled to win. The one time he fought a great fighter, he looked like he didn't belong in the ring with him.

Toney has been beat up inside, beat up outside, beat up everywhere by a hell of a lot worse than Hagler. He was outskilled many times. I mean, seriously? James Toney would have the advantage OUTSIDE over Marvin Hagler? In what universe, man? When did he EVER show that level of skill?

Toney was one-dimensional as hell.

Toney often struggled against lower level competition simply because of his attitude towards the sport (not always, but a lot of the time), he was lazy, arrogant and often overlooked opponents. Even with his problems outside the ring, he's still got wins over guys like Nunn, Reggie Johnson, McCallum, Jirov.

Hagler struggled and lost against non-elite fighters too, and this is a bit cliche but his best wins were against smaller guys...

Maybe Toney is a bit overrated generally speaking (not as much as you guys say), but his main downfall was his lack of dedication to the sport imo.

[Canelo and GGG]

Alvarez has consistently shown a skill level comparable to Cotto. Toney has never shown a skill level comparable to Hagler.

Fair enough ,the more i watch Toney the more i think i rememberd only flashes of his talent and it fooled me,loved to watch his and roy highlights when he retired and Roy was old ,i seen they carrers on youtube cuse im to young ,shame i didnt have chance to watch 90s heros live,i need to give you this Hagler would probably pull it of.

still not easy fight and good matchup IMO

[IronDanHamza]

Toney often struggled against lower level competition simply because of his attitude towards the sport (not always, but a lot of the time), he was lazy, arrogant and often overlooked opponents. Even with his problems outside the ring, he's still got wins over guys like Nunn, Reggie Johnson, McCallum, Jirov.

Hagler struggled and lost against non-elite fighters too, and this is a bit cliche but his best wins were against smaller guys...

Maybe Toney is a bit overrated generally speaking (not as much as you guys say), but his main downfall was his lack of dedication to the sport imo.

Reggie Johnson was a gift decision as was the McCallum win.

Nunn made him look like an amateur for 10 rounds and Jirov is Jeff Lacy before Jeff Lacy.

Toney's problems stretched A LOT longer than "not being dedicated" which is conveniently the excuse for every single fight he ever had in his career.

He struggled and lost so many times because he's one dimensional, has very little ring IQ, has no ability to make adjustments, has poor footwork, and the list of flaws goes on and on.

It's irrelevant anyway because he's never shown anything to suggest to could be competitive with Hagler. Nothing. Not a single thing he's done in the ring suggests that.

[Ray Corso]

"Btw did Hagler lost to Willy monroe jr's father or they are not related"?


This is why studying a mans opponents and learning when & where they fought has a lot to do with evaluating his talents.

Monroe was 36-3-1 when he won a un. decs. in 10 from Hagler in Philly.

One year later Monroe is 3-1 since winning but gets stopped in 12rds in Mass.

Hagler re matched him again and stopped him in 2rds back in Philly.

Monroe was a contender and a true test for any middleweight at that time.

I'm not passing Willie off as a great middleweight but at that time to go into Philly and take on the "home of tough guys" especially at 160 you got a chance to grow as a young fighter and learn more about boxing than fighting in your "home arena" against "picked" opponents.

Hagler has a very good record against a lot of very good fighters and a few very dangerous men.

Ray

[Canelo and GGG]

"Btw did Hagler lost to Willy monroe jr's father or they are not related"?


This is why studying a mans opponents and learning when & where they fought has a lot to do with evaluating his talents.

Monroe was 36-3-1 when he won a un. decs. in 10 from Hagler in Philly.

One year later Monroe is 3-1 since winning but gets stopped in 12rds in Mass.

Hagler re matched him again and stopped him in 2rds back in Philly.

Monroe was a contender and a true test for any middleweight at that time.

I'm not passing Willie off as a great middleweight but at that time to go into Philly and take on the "home of tough guys" especially at 160 you got a chance to grow as a young fighter and learn more about boxing than fighting in your "home arena" against "picked" opponents.

Hagler has a very good record against a lot of very good fighters and a few very dangerous men.

Ray

you are suggesting that i loughed from hagler couse of that? if so i didnt was just asking ,i dont know every boxer in the world and just asked.

he also beat guy named Roy jones ,i saw this fight but idk if its Roy father.

[Ray Corso]

......you asked, I answered. Study and learn!
Why comments about a fighters history if you don't know it. Study, read, learn!

There is a reason that Hagler, Monson and Robinson are considered the best at 160, read about them and find out why so when you comment your telling facts not guessing.
Ray

[Canelo and GGG]

......you asked, I answered. Study and learn!
Why comments about a fighters history if you don't know it. Study, read, learn!

There is a reason that Hagler, Monson and Robinson are considered the best at 160, read about them and find out why so when you comment your telling facts not guessing.
Ray

I learn couse i saw this fights ,was asking about theyr family ,and some guy replied that this Monroe is Jr's great uncle ,you didnt said anything about that but thanks for little bit of history appreciate that my friend.

[IronDanHamza]

That's exactly what the kid is doing, asking questions and trying to learn. He admits that he's too young to know a lot of stuff hence why he's asking questions. Everyone starts somewhere. I respect the kid for being up front and honest in his attempt to learn, a lot of new comers don't do that and have a know it all attitude.

But of course Ray acts like the **** that he is.

[bojangles1987]

Fair enough ,the more i watch Toney the more i think i rememberd only flashes of his talent and it fooled me,loved to watch his and roy highlights when he retired and Roy was old ,i seen they carrers on youtube cuse im to young ,shame i didnt have chance to watch 90s heros live,i need to give you this Hagler would probably pull it of.

still not easy fight and good matchup IMO

Honestly, that's how most people think of Toney and it's the reputation he increasingly garners over the years. People see flashy highlights and hear all these stories and comments about how super talented and amazing he was, and it has created this myth about James Toney that the reality doesn't match.

I was the same at one point. Then you dig deeper into his career and you realize he was never the fighter the reputation says he was.

[PeasantCrusha]

Toney beats Hagler and does so convincingly.