Hagler vs James Toney MW WAR

[IronDanHamza]

Also, Toney fought Jirov at Cruiser. I wouldn't even say Toney was at his best. He had already been in the game for 15 years and had 72 fights.

Toney started his career at what, JMW or MW?? Fought and dropped and almost stopped Jirov at Cruiser.

Sure, Calzaghe beat Lacy at 168, but Toney was already up 30 something pounds from the weight he started at when he fought Jirov. You can't really compare the two.

That's like saying GGG struggled with Jean McCormick in a war so he couldn't have been better than Froch who clearly beat Bute

Just a bad comparison.

I never compared Toney-Jirov to Calzaghe-Lacy.

I compared Jirov to Lacy.

[IronDanHamza]

I'd have to disagree with Toney having a low IQ. Anyone that can do the shoulder roll and fire back with the right hand after perfectly rolling the shoulder takes a high IQ.

You saw what happen when Broner and Berto tried the shoulder roll.

I think Toney would be competitve with Hagler because of his ability to fight in the pocket. Toney could also crack and put you on your ass.

Hagler was reckless at times, but obviously strong as hell.

I give Hagler the edge, but it would've been very competitive. At best, Hagler wins a decision... Maybe 116-112 or 115-113, but no way does Toney get stopped. He would also have many moments against Hagler

Being able to utilise a shoulder roll effectively doesn't necessarily mean you have high ring IQ.

Broner had success with it PLENTY, at 130-140.

Ian Napa used to sit in the pocket and perfectly time counters from the shoulder roll.

Floyd Sr countered off the shoulder roll.

George Benton practically invented the modern day shoulder roll.

None of the above had great ring IQ.

Toney had poor ring IQ because he has no ability to adjust, if a fights not going his way he simply keeps trying the same thing. When Reggie Johnson boxed his ears off, he just kept following him around the ring and loading up on a big punch, same thing he did with Nunn. When Montel Griffin jabbed him, he had no answer for it, he just let it land all night. Roy Jones embarrassed him in first gear, no had no answers for anything he just stood there all night getting battered from pillar to post.

List goes on.

[Chollo Vista]

I never compared Toney-Jirov to Calzaghe-Lacy.

I compared Jirov to Lacy.

Sure, but you compared Jirov to Lacy and how well Toney did against Jirov and Calzaghe did against Lacy. That's not fair, imo.

Being able to utilise a shoulder roll effectively doesn't necessarily mean you have high ring IQ.

Broner had success with it PLENTY, at 130-140.

Ian Napa used to sit in the pocket and perfectly time counters from the shoulder roll.

Floyd Sr countered off the shoulder roll.

George Benton practically invented the modern day shoulder roll.

None of the above had great ring IQ.

Toney had poor ring IQ because he has no ability to adjust, if a fights not going his way he simply keeps trying the same thing. When Reggie Johnson boxed his ears off, he just kept following him around the ring and loading up on a big punch, same thing he did with Nunn. When Montel Griffin jabbed him, he had no answer for it, he just let it land all night. Roy Jones embarrassed him in first gear, no had no answers for anything he just stood there all night getting battered from pillar to post.

List goes on.

Toney did the shoulder roll against Killers like Sam Peter. But yes, I get your point, Toney couldn't adjust.

But Hagler Toney's style was one that wouldn't need adjusting against Hagler because Toney could actually fight in the pocket. Hagler would've been in his chest which plays perfectly with Toney's style.

And I say this as someone that think that Hagler would win it, but it'd be close.

[IronDanHamza]

Sure, but you compared Jirov to Lacy in how well Toney did against Jirov and Calzaghe did against Lacy. That's not fair, imo.



Toney did the shoulder roll against Killers like Sam Peter. But yes, I get your point, Toney couldn't adjust.

But Hagler Toney's style was one that wouldn't need adjusting against Hagler because Toney could actually fight in the pocket. Hagler would've been in his chest which plays perfectly with Toney's style.

And I say this as someone that think that Hagler would win it, but it'd be close.

I simply compared the fighters. I only compared the fights when questioned on it.

Toney countered Peter but has zero wins over him.

As for Hagler, he wouldn't need to be in his chest, he'd beat him easily at range. Even if he did get in his chest he'd beat him there aswell.

[soul_survivor]

Toney had a very could shoulder roll back at middle and when his chin did get tested, it passed.

Hagler wasn't as good defensively and all throughout his career, struggled against guys with quick hands.

Plus, if I'm not wrong, Hagler was 3 or so inches shorter than Toney too.

Toney UD.

Hagler is the greater fighter but h2h, Toney beats him.

[buckfuddy]

It's could have been a war only if Marvin decided to start a war. Otherwise he just picks Toney apart from the outside with his jab and movement. Toney is to static to deal with Hagler.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Toney had a very could shoulder roll back at middle and when his chin did get tested, it passed.

Hagler wasn't as good defensively and all throughout his career, struggled against guys with quick hands.

Plus, if I'm not wrong, Hagler was 3 or so inches shorter than Toney too.

Toney UD.

Hagler is the greater fighter but h2h, Toney beats him.

Hagler was an inch shorter than Toney but had a far longer reach. Being taller doesn't mean anything if your arms aren't longer than your opponents. Just makes you a bigger target.